*** CZ 858 Update ***

[derrick1978]

If you're going to try and correct someone, you should maybe get your facts right first. First the receiver wasn't touched. The addition was on the dust cover and the furniture. The lab has guidelines that they have to follow. There is no room for emotions. If what you are trying to suggest was truly the case then almost every firearm to come to the lab would be given a prohibited designation. We wouldn't have non restricted "black" rifles. Your argument isn't supported by any facts or even common sense. The RCMP don't care and guess what, the lab doesn't either. That's no more likely to get the firearm listed as prohibited than putting hello kitty stickers on a known prohibited firearm is going to get it a non restricted classification.

Please don't mistake what I'm saying as some sort of justification for the lab classification. I truly hope this was an oversight/mistake that will be cleared up shortly in Wolverine's favour.

Actually, the addition was to the bolt carrier group. So your facts are also incorrect and maybe you should also straighten up. Clearly, the lab hasn't approved this rifle, for which you lack an appropriate explanation other than an oversight or mistake. Your argument for the hope of an oversight/mistake is severely lacking in the area of common sense. It is very unlikely that this is a mistake on the part of the lab and is a highly unlogical conclusion.

[Epoxy7]

Actually, the addition was to the bolt carrier group. So your facts are also incorrect and maybe you should also straighten up. Clearly, the lab hasn't approved this rifle, for which you lack an appropriate explanation other than an oversight or mistake. Your argument for the hope of an oversight/mistake is severely lacking in the area of common sense. It is very unlikely that this is a mistake on the part of the lab and is a highly unlogical conclusion.

Yes, we all get it. You don't understand the firearms laws. WE already guessed this. The dust cover on the CZ858 is the breach block carrier. The actual controlled item on this type of firearm is the receiver. The breach block carrier/dust cover or even the bolt carrier group isn't the controlled item. If you look at the FRT information you will see that the "receiver" has " CZ 858 Tactical -2P" on it. Exactly the same as the ones that are listed in the OIC as non restricted. So the only item which in Canada is considered the firearm ie the receiver isn't marked differently and is the same as the ones in the OIC. Thanks again for trying out.

The lab lists this as a new model. It isn't. It doesn't require a new FRT entry as it is the same as the one on the OIC. Changing ones CZ858 furniture to wood and adding the aftermarket ambi breach block carrier doesn't change the designation of your firearm nor does it make it a new model. So yes I would say this was an oversight or mistake. Once again I bring you to the Tavor, the ACR, the XCR etc etc as examples of non restricted firearms that simply wouldn't be if the biased/politics and unprofessional that you espouse was rampant at the lab.

[MET]

Correct, to be exact "CZ 858 Tactical - 2P" the same as they have always been marked, absolutely no changes to the markings on the "Frame or Receiver" which as we all know is the one controlled part.

Unfortunately there is a lot of miss information been spread about, I am really not sure where it is all coming from!

I believe the misinformation is coming from many members right here on CGN...

Plus when one reads headings such as "The RCMP is banning the CZ858 rifle: Sign the petition to stop this gun grab!" from Faith Goldy at The Rebel many people assumed the RCMP is banning "all" CZ858's. Maybe if it read "The RCMP is banning the latest imported CZ858 rifles: Sign the petition to stop this gun grab! "

http://www.therebel.media/come-and-take-them

I am not slamming Faith Goldy, she is great.

[derrick1978]

Yes, we all get it. You don't understand the firearms laws. WE already guessed this. The dust cover on the CZ858 is the breach block carrier. The actual controlled item on this type of firearm is the receiver. The breach block carrier/dust cover or even the bolt carrier group isn't the controlled item. If you look at the FRT information you will see that the "receiver" has " CZ 858 Tactical -2P" on it. Exactly the same as the ones that are listed in the OIC as non restricted. So the only item which in Canada is considered the firearm ie the receiver isn't marked differently and is the same as the ones in the OIC. Thanks again for trying out.

The lab lists this as a new model. It isn't. It doesn't require a new FRT entry as it is the same as the one on the OIC. Changing ones CZ858 furniture to wood and adding the aftermarket ambi breach block carrier doesn't change the designation of your firearm nor does it make it a new model. So yes I would say this was an oversight or mistake. Once again I bring you to the Tavor, the ACR, the XCR etc etc as examples of non restricted firearms that simply wouldn't be if the biased/politics and unprofessional that you espouse was rampant at the lab.

You're the one who wrote that the emblem was on the dust cover, that's incorrect. You used hope of a mistake for the basis of your last argument, it's hard to justify further argumentation against magical- thinking.

[Epoxy7]

... The receiver should have been left "cz 858 2-p" and there wouldn't have been an issue. But instead smugness ensued and the receivers were marked with "spartan" and " moan labe", and created an unrequired animosity.

Remind me again which part is considered the firearm for the CZ858 here in Canada? Oh that's right... it's the receiver!!! Was the image on the receiver? Why no it wasn't.

You're the one who wrote that the emblem was on the dust cover, that's incorrect. You used hope of a mistake for the basis of your last argument, it's hard to justify further argumentation against magical- thinking.

Yes I used the wrong terminology for the non regulated/irrelevant to classification part. Congratulations way to really find the flaw in the argument. It's actually completely irrelevant. But yes please cling onto that small battle after loosing the war. I forgot how petty some can be when they try to cling onto anything to save their ego. It shouldn't have surprised me though in your case. It's pretty common to see such pettiness in the face of someone with a poor/incorrect argument having to use terms such as "cognitive dissonance" to try and camouflage their lack of knowledge. You're trying too hard.

Oh yes hope of a mistake. Actually I used the law as the basis of my argument that it was a mistake. I used "hope" to leave it open in case their was technical information we haven't been provided. New information changes things.

So when this gets cleared up are you going to do the honorable thing by manning up and admitting you were wrong? Or can we fully expect you to quietly slink away in denial?

[derrick1978]

Remind me again which part is considered the firearm for the CZ858 here in Canada? Oh that's right... it's the receiver!!! Was the image on the receiver? Why no it wasn't.



Yes I used the wrong terminology for the non regulated/irrelevant to classification part. Congratulations way to really find the flaw in the argument. It's actually completely irrelevant. But yes please cling onto that small battle after loosing the war. I forgot how petty some can be when they try to cling onto anything to save their ego. It shouldn't have surprised me though in your case. It's pretty common to see such pettiness in the face of someone with a poor/incorrect argument having to use terms such as "cognitive dissonance" to try and camouflage their lack of knowledge. You're trying too hard.

Oh yes hope of a mistake. Actually I used the law as the basis of my argument that it was a mistake. I used "hope" as a way to try and cushion the fact your argument was based on incorrect information. This goes back to that little "receiver" mistake you made earlier.

So when this gets cleared up are you going to do the honorable thing by manning up and admitting you were wrong? Or can we fully expect you to quietly slink away in denial?

The decision wasn't a mistake, that's a ridiculous assertion. This firearm has been used in recent history in high profile crimes and was likely why it came under scrutiny and was classified as prohibited. A mistake was acknowledged, that being that it was allowed to be imported in the first place. My point was that propoganda that was unnecessarily antagonistic was used to market the rifle, and it backfired. You are obviously suffering from cognitive dissonance, review your poorly constructed argument.

[patsow87]

Tisk tisk

[Epoxy7]

The decision wasn't a mistake, that's a ridiculous assertion. This firearm has been used in recent history in high profile crimes and was likely why it came under scrutiny and was classified as prohibited. A mistake was acknowledged, that being that it was allowed to be imported in the first place. My point was that propoganda that was unnecessarily antagonistic was used to market the rifle, and it backfired. You are obviously suffering from cognitive dissonance, review your poorly constructed argument.

You need to go back to school and get your learn on.

Let me spell out the argument: Often those who try to use $20 words to dress up a 20 cent idea have trouble with comprehension:

1) Receiver is the firearm in Canada for the CZ858. The other parts aren't controlled.
2) The receiver doesn't have any extra markings (Contrary to what you tried to claim). The markings are the same as the already classified non restricted firearm
3) Therefore the firearm in question is non restricted since it's a model/type already deemed non restricted by OIC

4) The lab designated it a new model. If this was a new model then they would be correct at it being prohibited. At least based on the current full auto receiver/converted determination (but that's another debate).
5) The lab made a mistake by labeling this a new model as it isn't.

6) The lab could be correct if there is technical information we don't know regarding the receiver, which could make it a new firearm model and therefore require a new FRT number/designation.

7) You are basing your opinion that everyone else works on pettiness and emotion. I suspect this is a case of projecting one's own traits onto others . The current crop of non restricted firearms here in Canada counters the pettiness and not allowing what they don't like into the country argument.

[crazyjackrabbit]

Whats with all the douchebaggery girls? Change your ####ing tampons already and use all nagging and negativity to get my cz858 released!

Agreed

[Epoxy7]

Whats with all the douchebaggery girls? Change your ####ing tampons already and use all nagging and negativity to get my cz858 released!

Agreed

Or you guys can actually contribute rather than just trying to ramp up the post counts. We're probably looking at a few weeks to a month before we hear anything new on this anyways. As a CZ858 owner I'm fairly interested in this one. Especially after going through the first round of prohibitions with both the CZ858 and the PE90.