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Thread: CZ EVO S1 Scorpion *UPDATE*

  1. #51
    CGN Regular ghost271's Avatar
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    Great job Wolverine !
    Any idea on cost/release date of the Bren ?
    Please keep us posted on pre-sale list of the Evo.

  2. #52
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer 84wh1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norlandgeese View Post
    Well fellas, some kinda monumental group buy campaign?
    I was gonna buy a Colt MRR, but, an NR CZ would take my money hands down. Thank you for getting this done Wolverine!
    DISCLAIMER

    - First “I’ll take it” wins regardless of what dialogue is occurring
    - payment required within 12 HRS unless agreed upon prior
    - all sales on the EE are final so i ask questions before buying
    - all items sold come with 100$ insurance.

  3. #53
    CGN Regular 90vette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfiles View Post
    Oh the APC9. Last on my hit list before my wife gives birth soon I hope!!!
    Congratulations
    CONFIRMED...SEND IT!

  4. #54
    CGN Regular 90vette's Avatar
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    I am excited about this, but my mind got derailed when I seen the word "Bren". Is my dream gun coming to Canada too?!?!
    CONFIRMED...SEND IT!

  5. #55
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer 84wh1's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wolverine View Post
    CZ EVO S1 Scorpion

    After 4 years of work we have finally got the EVO 3 S1 Scorpion approved as a restricted firearm in Canada, the magazine capacity will be 5 rds as she is a CV. It is because of our efforts that CZ agreed to design a dedicated semi auto Scorpion. With their (CZ) first effort parts could simply be interchanged between the FA model and the SA model, this would obviously not meet the RCMP standards. CZ were not interested in making a large financial commitment in designing a dedicated SA model until we pointed out that this model would be good worldwide including the huge US market, so they went ahead and developed the EVO 3 S1. This Scorpion was put into production and was an immediate success in the US. Here in Canada we had to wait for the RCMP SFSS to make their determination.

    For the last 10 days (since FRT issue) I have been “debating” with CZ about Canadian pricing! We were expected (by CZ) to retail her higher than in the US. I was not going to agree to that as I would be setting ourselves up for accusations of having a monopoly and then gouging customers. At IWA CZ told us that we had exclusivity for the EVO 3 and BREN for Canada, partly due to the fact we had guided CZ through the Canadian approval process and Wolverine has always had their special projects right from the first Scorpion (.380 ACP) and the CZ 858 and CZ 958 which again we assisted with the development of.

    For simplicity all prices below are in US dollars.
    Normally I would never quote our costs but after the events of the last week or so I feel it is time to set the record straight, as the vast majority of Canadian importers and distributors are not “screwing their Canadian customers.” Initially we were quoted by CZ, a cost of $659 US FOB the factory so I estimated a landed cost of $694. Checking a very vocal Grey Market importer’s web site they had a retail of $803, now remember this includes the US 11% FET so less tax their retail was $715. So they were retailing at $21 over my cost and I need to offer at least a 20% discount to Canadian dealers. CZ were directing me to retail in Canada for $950 + as the Scorpion was quote “A US model”! The maths simply didn’t add up. The daily exchange of e-mails between myself and CZ have, at least on my part, been extremely restrained.

    Now we have a Grey Market dealer moving in on the market! I have no choice but to announce our pricing. Remember the above prices are for a Scorpion with no stock, our cost for the stock is $100. CZ have told us they are not interested in making a 18.6 inch barrel for the Canadian market. We are stilling talking to CZ about pinning mags to 5 rds and what that cost may be.

    As of today:
    Our landed cost $650 US
    Canadian dealer $749 US
    Canadian retail $849 US add on 35 % exchange rate and the retail is $1,146.15 Canadian dollars plus shipping and tax. If anyone us been screwed it is the Canadian dealer not the retail customer. This is with out the stock cost and possible extra cost for pinning mags.

    We have placed an order for 350 pieces and we are told to expect a May delivery, this is part of our initial order of 1,000 units so do not accuse us as a distributor who fails to order inventory.

    Any genuine Canadian dealer who carries his own inventory, runs a bricks and mortar retail store, pays good wages to full time professional staff, carries liability insurance, advertises, pays rent or lease and supports Canadian firearms associations will be running expenses of approx 15% so a 20 % return is a mere pittance.

    CZ is an extremely important supplier to Wolverine Supplies and I pray that this post will not change our relationship, but the views expressed on CGN this past week have been very disturbing to me as the true nature of the Canadian Firearms Industry business is often untold, for many varied reasons. If the weaners and wankers on CGN insist on always supporting grey market importers they will kill their local Canadian dealers, do that and then you can really expect to get screwed.

    Country to what some of you may think I do support free enterprise but as a self employed business owner I will fight tooth and nail for what myself and my team have built up. Read our warranty we stand behind what we sell, we don’t wait to send it back to the manufacture.

    I make no apologies for my rant but if you follow CGN, this last week has been a bad week for the Canadian firearms industry.

    If you think trucks in Canada our to expensive then why not open a Ford dealership from your Mummies basement, let’s sit back and see how Ford respond! Why should Canadian Firearms distributors react any differently?

    Have a good evening.
    Hi John,

    When you have time can you post a few pics of exactly what will be delivered to customers. So essentially hows its going to look once it arrives at my door step
    DISCLAIMER

    - First “I’ll take it” wins regardless of what dialogue is occurring
    - payment required within 12 HRS unless agreed upon prior
    - all sales on the EE are final so i ask questions before buying
    - all items sold come with 100$ insurance.

  6. #56
    Member Tyler Durden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wolverine View Post
    Fenceline, your posts are always well written, I suspect you may be an LE officer, certainly well educated, but this "once a handgun always a handgun" puzzles me, is this a regulation (law?) or just another CFC policy? And policy is like that word privilege, a P word that pisses me off!
    Fenceline does post some well written and informative posts, but his knowledge of firearm legislation leads me to doubt he is a police officer. Most police officers know very little about gun law. Surprisingly, they aren't even required to have an RPAL. Now he may be in law enforcement, and if so, either works/worked in a bureau that dealt with firearms, or perhaps worked with a CFO. Or he could simply be a CFSC/CRFSC instructor. Maybe he's just well read in the regs that apply to his hobby. The point is, I've seen several people try to feel him out on what he does for a living, but I don't ever recall seeing a reaponse. I take it he likes his privacy and I respect that.
    "We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not fvck with us." - Tyler Durden

  7. #57
    CGN frequent flyer NickVR's Avatar
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    Lots of Drama on CGN this week it seems between MDC and IRG and now Wolverine.

    Welcome to a free market people.

    In other news... CZ Evo looks pretty badass

  8. #58
    Member Tyler Durden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wolverine View Post
    CZ EVO S1 Scorpion

    After 4 years of work we have finally got the EVO 3 S1 Scorpion approved as a restricted firearm in Canada, the magazine capacity will be 5 rds as she is a CV. It is because of our efforts that CZ agreed to design a dedicated semi auto Scorpion. With their (CZ) first effort parts could simply be interchanged between the FA model and the SA model, this would obviously not meet the RCMP standards. CZ were not interested in making a large financial commitment in designing a dedicated SA model until we pointed out that this model would be good worldwide including the huge US market, so they went ahead and developed the EVO 3 S1. This Scorpion was put into production and was an immediate success in the US. Here in Canada we had to wait for the RCMP SFSS to make their determination.

    For the last 10 days (since FRT issue) I have been “debating” with CZ about Canadian pricing! We were expected (by CZ) to retail her higher than in the US. I was not going to agree to that as I would be setting ourselves up for accusations of having a monopoly and then gouging customers. At IWA CZ told us that we had exclusivity for the EVO 3 and BREN for Canada, partly due to the fact we had guided CZ through the Canadian approval process and Wolverine has always had their special projects right from the first Scorpion (.380 ACP) and the CZ 858 and CZ 958 which again we assisted with the development of.

    For simplicity all prices below are in US dollars.
    Normally I would never quote our costs but after the events of the last week or so I feel it is time to set the record straight, as the vast majority of Canadian importers and distributors are not “screwing their Canadian customers.” Initially we were quoted by CZ, a cost of $659 US FOB the factory so I estimated a landed cost of $694. Checking a very vocal Grey Market importer’s web site they had a retail of $803, now remember this includes the US 11% FET so less tax their retail was $715. So they were retailing at $21 over my cost and I need to offer at least a 20% discount to Canadian dealers. CZ were directing me to retail in Canada for $950 + as the Scorpion was quote “A US model”! The maths simply didn’t add up. The daily exchange of e-mails between myself and CZ have, at least on my part, been extremely restrained.

    Now we have a Grey Market dealer moving in on the market! I have no choice but to announce our pricing. Remember the above prices are for a Scorpion with no stock, our cost for the stock is $100. CZ have told us they are not interested in making a 18.6 inch barrel for the Canadian market. We are stilling talking to CZ about pinning mags to 5 rds and what that cost may be.

    As of today:
    Our landed cost $650 US
    Canadian dealer $749 US
    Canadian retail $849 US add on 35 % exchange rate and the retail is $1,146.15 Canadian dollars plus shipping and tax. If anyone us been screwed it is the Canadian dealer not the retail customer. This is with out the stock cost and possible extra cost for pinning mags.

    We have placed an order for 350 pieces and we are told to expect a May delivery, this is part of our initial order of 1,000 units so do not accuse us as a distributor who fails to order inventory.

    Any genuine Canadian dealer who carries his own inventory, runs a bricks and mortar retail store, pays good wages to full time professional staff, carries liability insurance, advertises, pays rent or lease and supports Canadian firearms associations will be running expenses of approx 15% so a 20 % return is a mere pittance.

    CZ is an extremely important supplier to Wolverine Supplies and I pray that this post will not change our relationship, but the views expressed on CGN this past week have been very disturbing to me as the true nature of the Canadian Firearms Industry business is often untold, for many varied reasons. If the weaners and wankers on CGN insist on always supporting grey market importers they will kill their local Canadian dealers, do that and then you can really expect to get screwed.

    Country to what some of you may think I do support free enterprise but as a self employed business owner I will fight tooth and nail for what myself and my team have built up. Read our warranty we stand behind what we sell, we don’t wait to send it back to the manufacture.

    I make no apologies for my rant but if you follow CGN, this last week has been a bad week for the Canadian firearms industry.

    If you think trucks in Canada our to expensive then why not open a Ford dealership from your Mummies basement, let’s sit back and see how Ford respond! Why should Canadian Firearms distributors react any differently?

    Have a good evening.
    Well, Mr. Wolverine, I can appreciate the difficult position you are in. There have been some comments on this site of late accusing some vendors and distributors of 'price gouging' and unfair trade practices, that may have been ill-advised and I'm sure are very frustrating for you, but perhaps comments like "weaners and wankers" and "mummies basement" are unnecessary?

    It does seem that Canadian vendors are stuck between the proverbial 'rock and a hard place'. They have live within the confines of their agreements with manufacturers and distributors as well as complying with export & import laws while at the same time competing with 'grey market vendors' that more often than not, offer better pricing and access to otherwise unobtainable firearms. At the end of the day, your biggest problem is human nature. Sure, you have some loyal customers, but the majority of people are going to buy from where ever they get the best price. That includes some of cheerleaders on here claiming they will stick with you, 'no matter what'.

    I'm not sure what the answer is, but I don't think you'll find your OP to be overly helpful. We've seen other sponsors on here posting emotionally-driven comments about the competition and politics of the firearms business, only to see those posts stirring up heated debates that typically descend into flame wars. This is before CGN Admin deletes the threads and posts stern warnings for all involved, site members and site sponsors.

    Is it possible to find a new approach to all this? Perhaps if all the stakeholders in the business, from the manufacturers to the vendors, got together and discussed the problems you are facing, that maybe something could be worked out? You would certainly know better than me. I'm just an end-user, and a plinker, but a concerned one at that. It appears there is some kind of war brewing and and we should all be concerned about that, as it may lead to higher prices and more restrictions. None of us want that.
    "We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not fvck with us." - Tyler Durden

  9. #59
    CGN frequent flyer CyprusTM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wolverine View Post
    Well for you I will I have the APC 9 as B&T will work with us, you may have to order 30 and they will not be cheap. Seriously give us time and we will see what we can do for you.
    I too will wait for a NR EVO, hopefully you guys will make it happen. Congrats on the approval and thank you for bringing this stuff in.

  10. #60
    Member Tyler Durden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Rouser View Post
    The "other guy" is just virtual store that has no inventory. It only exist in cyber space.
    If you're talking about the same guy I think you are, you are incorrect.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by the other guy
    BS. We carry a large inventory in Canada and the USA. I don't recall ever touring you through either warehouse. John please delete this comment as you see fit.
    Like I said...
    Last edited by Tyler Durden; 04-06-2017 at 10:14 AM.
    "We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not fvck with us." - Tyler Durden

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