CZ EVO S1 Scorpion *UPDATE*

[A_guy]

CZ EVO S1 Scorpion

After 4 years of work <snip>

If you think trucks in Canada are too expensive then why not open a Ford dealership from your Mummies basement, let’s sit back and see how Ford respond! Why should Canadian Firearms distributors react any differently?

Have a good evening.

An astoundingly honest and forthright post. There's the argument that you never ask the customer what they're willing to pay, you tell them but when you have a market that is as tumultuous as almost all of those around us, laying all the cards on the table is a welcome play. I have nothing but respect for individuals who work to put food not only on their plates, but create employment and put food on those plates as well. While I am a tight-fisted Scot, the value of my dollar goes beyond what ends up in my hand - it absolutely matters how it gets there, or I will have no place to argue when the only roles available for university-educated kids requires "would you like fries with that".

“There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.” - John Ruskin

Perhaps I missed it amongst all the other chatter - is there going to be a (restricted) rifle version or strictly pistol?

Edited to add: My own perception is that it has been neither the dealer nor the distributor that has held us by the short and curlies, but the factories. I don't know about Ford, but GM said in as plain English as they could - we price them according to the market they are sold in. Can't imagine that's not a normal course of business. We need more Made-in-Canada products.

[markt]

I have a couple of concerns regarding the way the firearms industry in Canada is approaching the importation of restricted and non-restricted firearms. Hear me out on this one.

The CZ Evo S1 is not a gun that I see destined for Non-restricted status. It's a PDW. To put a 18.6" barrel on it would both be unattractive and ridiculous. Now, I fully understand that we want as many non-restricted firearms available in Canada as possible, and that options for NR are always fantastic. HOWEVER, we have a variety of other pistol-calibre NR rifles/carbines that don't look goofy as #### with 18.6" barrels. I shoot predominantly on ranges, so restricted status is not a dealbreaker for me - I understand as well that this may be the case for a lot of Canadians.

My major concern is that when we import firearms like this as rifles and NOT as pistols, we forever lose the opportunity to sell them with 10 round magazines. If they are imported as pistols, putting stocks and longer barrels on them doesn't/can't change their restricted status. This will disqualify any "pistol" SMG/PDW from being reclassified as non-restricted, yes, but with this "rifle" status, we automatically lose 10 round magazines forever, as we've seen recently with the MPX and the "reclassification" of magazines to the 5 rounds under this interpretation of "dual use."

In my opinion, 10 round magazines are more important than a non-restricted variant for guns that look ridiculous in that configuration.

If you want an NR PDW, buy a KRISS. Or a JR Carbine. Or a number of other firearms. Leave the MPX and EVO as restricted, registered as Pistols, so that I can put a stock on it and shoot 10 round mags all day.

Unfortunately, this decision is already made, and the die is cast. These guns will never see 10 round magazines as a result of the reinterpretation by the RCMP on magazines as of late.

It's a shame, in my opinion.

Well said and I completely agree. Firearms like these are way more fun with 10rd magazines which has much more value to me as a range-only shooter. I try my best to only have firearms that support 10rd mags.

[Mr Wolverine]

I also agree with Pavehammer. In the case of the Scorpion it would not have made any differance which came into Canada first, rifle or pistol. The RCMP SFSS send members to all the large International shows, they read trade publications, visit manufacturers web sites etc. Most manufactures do not understand our regulations and our market is so small most don,t care. The Scorpion is a CV (Commericial Version) of an SMG so mags would be limited to 5 rds no matter if you call her a pistol or rifle. I asked CZ 4 years ago to build a model using Glock mags but not interested because I could not commit to a large enough order, it was a good job I didn't as things turned out, or I would have lost my shirt while lining the pockets of others. If an importer is going to stick his neck out and place large orders or even invest in firearms development they they need some guarantees that some other importer is not able to do an end run round them. I have made these commitments in the past, and pulled them off to everyone's statsifaction but it is becoming increasingly differcult in this modern "high speed" world where the mighty dollar is valued more than integrity.

[Bad Lieutenant]

I also agree with Pavehammer. In the case of the Scorpion it would not have made any differance which came into Canada first, rifle or pistol. The RCMP SFSS send members to all the large International shows, they read trade publications, visit manufacturers web sites etc. Most manufactures do not understand our regulations and our market is so small most don,t care. The Scorpion is a CV (Commericial Version) of an SMG so mags would be limited to 5 rds no matter if you call her a pistol or rifle. I asked CZ 4 years ago to build a model using Glock mags but not interested because I could not commit to a large enough order, it was a good job I didn't as things turned out, or I would have lost my shirt while lining the pockets of others. If an importer is going to stick his neck out and place large orders or even invest in firearms development they they need some guarantees that some other importer is not able to do an end run round them. I have made these commitments in the past, and pulled them off to everyone's statsifaction but it is becoming increasingly differcult in this modern "high speed" world where the mighty dollar is valued more than integrity.

Canada aside, I'm surprised that CZ isn't doing a Glock-mag variant option, or at least producing an adapter kit (if possible) simply due to the enormous popularity of Glock in the US and the cross-compatibility their mags with other systems. Maybe it'll happen yet...

[Master-G]

Canada aside, I'm surprised that CZ isn't doing a Glock-mag variant option, or at least producing an adapter kit (if possible) simply due to the enormous popularity of Glock in the US and the cross-compatibility their mags with other systems. Maybe it'll happen yet...

I'm not holding my breath, to be honest, as much as I'd love some 10-rounders. I'm guessing CZ's biggest market is in the US where most shooters would prefer a 30-round CZ mag to a 17-round Glock mag. And there's also the feed angle issue as well—I can't see how CZ or anyone else could modify the magwell to fit Glock mags that would reliably feed.

[Mr Wolverine]

Canada aside, I'm surprised that CZ isn't doing a Glock-mag variant option, or at least producing an adapter kit (if possible) simply due to the enormous popularity of Glock in the US and the cross-compatibility their mags with other systems. Maybe it'll happen yet...

Why would CZ do that, they don,t manufacture Glock mags and the double feed, double column Scorpion mag is superior to a Glock mag. Hence the differculty to convince CZ that it is a requirement just to suit our regulations, it is an uphill fight given our small market.

[Bad Lieutenant]

Why would CZ do that, they don,t manufacture Glock mags and the double feed, double column Scorpion mag is superior to a Glock mag. Hence the differculty to convince CZ that it is a requirement just to suit our regulations, it is an uphill fight given our small market.

Like I said, Glock is wildly popular in the US, and other parts of the world. A lot of people already have numerous Glock mags. Also, the concept of cross-compatibility of mags with different firearms is growing in popularity. Look at all the firearms that accept mags from other brands. I'm sure if CZ made either a Glock-compatible lower, or an Glock mag adapter kit that could fit existing lowers, this would be a benefit to them, and not just in our "small Canadian market", but in all markets across the globe. Regardless of how great the Scorpion mags are, there are still plenty of people, around the world, that would want a Glock-mag compatible Evo.

[A_guy]

This is the difference between the Windows mentality - wide open and compatible with anything, and the Apple mentality - closed, tightly-controlled and our-hardware-only.

[Brian46]

I also agree with Pavehammer. In the case of the Scorpion it would not have made any differance which came into Canada first, rifle or pistol. The RCMP SFSS send members to all the large International shows, they read trade publications, visit manufacturers web sites etc. Most manufactures do not understand our regulations and our market is so small most don,t care. The Scorpion is a CV (Commericial Version) of an SMG so mags would be limited to 5 rds no matter if you call her a pistol or rifle. I asked CZ 4 years ago to build a model using Glock mags but not interested because I could not commit to a large enough order, it was a good job I didn't as things turned out, or I would have lost my shirt while lining the pockets of others. If an importer is going to stick his neck out and place large orders or even invest in firearms development they they need some guarantees that some other importer is not able to do an end run round them. I have made these commitments in the past, and pulled them off to everyone's statsifaction but it is becoming increasingly differcult in this modern "high speed" world where the mighty dollar is valued more than integrity.

I do not care about the magazine capacity being limited to 5

The carbine or pistol FRT matters only as A carbine can be made non restricted with a longer barrel and a pistol can not.

Since you stated earlier that you have a thousand on order, when will you have some second generation carbines with the carbine length handguard for sale in FDE?

[Mr Wolverine]

I do not care about the magazine capacity being limited to 5

The carbine or pistol FRT matters only as A carbine can be made non restricted with a longer barrel and a pistol can not.

Since you stated earlier that you have a thousand on order, when will you have some second generation carbines with the carbine length handguard for sale in FDE?

I hope to have answers from CZ next week.