P&D Requires Pal for Reloading Components

[caskenette]

I show my PAL/RPAL to everyone , even people not connected to the firearm industry , when I buy anything . Mostly confuses people . Hey its picture ID , then I get into arguments as its not valid photo ID and on and on Of course I'm retired , got plenty of time on my hands and enjoy messing with people . Your in a gunshop : show them your PAL , who cares . As for young, uninformed , female sales people , hit on them , then show them your PAL !

[abbadon]

yes the Canadian explosives act, which is the overriding authority on everything that goes boom except loaded ammunition. it states that everyone who wished to purchase gun powder must be 18 years of age or older, and show valid Identification. PAL did not exist when it was written so a drivers license or provincial id is acceptable. Here in the amazing province of Ontario the CFO has made it a requirement to show a PAL for primers, and Powder which i assume B.C. and QUE are the same due to their provincial positions on guns.

At a federal level Valid ID and 18 is all that is required for powder and primers. all other components have no ruling authority that governs their sale as far as i can find reading both the firearms act and the explosives act

[can14]

TEC requires one for a checkering tool!!

[torontogungal]

We have recently (last august) bought reloading supplies in canada for paws old pre-safety marlin lever 35 rem we decided to keep because of the small selection of off the shelf factory ammo (mostly rem and hornady) in this caliber.
Paw uses the portable 2-handled lee press which with appropriate dies cost less than $75.
He wasn't asked for his pal for the press, the primers, the bullets or even the powder.
If other stores are asking it is their policy rather than the law.
Any purchases of loaded factory ammo must be recorded according to ontario provincial law as well as a valid pal produced by the buyer according to the firearms act/ccc.

[B.H.B]

Holy Hayzeus everybody's gone fuzzy sock sucking nuts over a kid asking for ID by mistake.

[700-223]

Some people would support licensing for walking down the street. Should a person have to produce a PAL to purchase a rifle sling, a holster, a bipod, or a package of targets? How does that make the world a better place? The reason that factory ammo is sold under a PAL is because a firearm is inert without it, whereas components must be assembled before they can be used to change the status of a firearm. You need a PAL in order to purchase factory ammunition, but you do not need a PAL to own factory ammo or handloads. I imagine there are more than a few cartridge collectors that do not have a PAL.

For those of us who remember buying ammo at the local hardware store as children and rifle racks in the windows of most pickups, its all security theatre anyhow. Just add's more $&/)/$! to the list of things to worry about. I care about what's safe and what's legal, and am very careful to follow the law, but I've given up on trying to apply logic to our firearms laws.

Unfortunately, we've all gotten too comfortable with PALs, RPALS, ATT's etc. Allan Rock and co were clear when they brought these laws in. The goal was to discourage firearms ownership not enhance safety. Really, I think a single class of PAL should be enough. If you can be trusted with any firearm, you can be trusted with all firearms - regardless of barrel length, action type, caliber etc. So, some of us get a little irritable when retailers ask for more than is legally required. That said, I'm sure it was just someone unclear on the rules or that bullets and ammo are treated differently.

I think we're best off just clarifying with staff without getting irritable. We all need to stay within the law and, as far as possible on the same side. Giving each other the benefit of the doubt and being civil is a good start. Sucks you had to leave without your components...

[madcow]

problem is, it may not be law, it can be store policy. If it is, I guess I'll be getting my stuff elsewhere.

[Canadaduck]

Here in BC last week I bought powder and primers without a PAL. (temporarily waiting for renewal) Show PAL for bullets? NO! NO! NO! Thats not the law.

[700-223]

Who in hell doesn't have their PAL in their wallet ( don't answer ) but even more important who in hell would drive any distance to a gun store to buy anything and not bring your PAL. What if you just wanted to look at and fondle a nice new gun that you have been wondering about. Bad planning for sure. And what, OP couldn't ask to speak to a manager ?? Sheesh. Total fail.

You don't need a PAL to handle a firearm. You don't even need one to shoot at a range with supervision. And - I don't mean on you - you don't have to have one at all to look legally. Another example of companies going above and beyond because of CYA advice from lawyers and justifiable fear of unreasonable demands from CFO's and govt. As they say, the process is the punishment. What business wants to endure extra inspections, fines or possible criminal proceedings even if they're in the 'right'. FWIW, I think most CFO's, LEO's, etc are reasonable and are only trying to enforce the law as written. On the other hand, it only takes one and when the laws are unnecessarily complicated, it's too easy for a gun owner trying to obey the law or a LEO trying to enforce the law to make an innocent mistake, much to the detriment of the gun owner or firearms business. My attitude, cheerfully comply with the letter of the law but not one inch further.

[Kelly Timoffee]

Is there an example of this happening?

When a FO or CFO goes into a business, and states they have to check a PAL for powder and primers, the business complies. Or risks losing their license. Look at all the retailers who require a PAL to purchase powder and primers.. clearly they aren't doing it because they think it's a moral obligation, they are doing it because they have been told to. Believe me, small business' don't need any additional paperwork and red tape.
You don't have to like the practice (and I don't either) but a business isn't going to court with a CFO over something like this.

I've been in Cdn Tire before, and new employees have asked me for a PAL to buy BB's. I don't squawk on the internet about it, I show them I have a PAL and discuss that they are wrong, and discuss it with their manager. Most managers just tell employees "see this cabinet, (points at gun cabinet) people need to produce a PAL to buy stuff from this cabinet" and move on. It's retail.