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Thread: Canadian made "black" rifle

  1. #101
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer cr5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos View Post
    Would there be an interest in a rifle that swapped out the magwell area as well as the upper? To maximize the use of a single lower since that’s your grip, trigger, and LOP. You could have a STANAG magwell, AK magwell, Glock magwell and various others. Then design uppers to work with one of the magwell options. It would be difficult to design but you’d sell a lot of conversion kits I’m sure. And a new round doesn’t need a new rifle or FRT, just another magwell and upper.
    Just make the magwell removable like on an SL-8.

    Quote Originally Posted by RKRZ View Post
    Would gladly pay north of $1000 for a NR Not-AR180B™ in 5.56x45.
    Why would you volunteer to pay more than what they predict the cost to be?
    You either have more money than you know what to do with or you know nothing about it and will be a broke slave your whole life. You sound like a guy I used to work with that said we were overpaid for what we do, dumbest thing I'd ever heard up to that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by alkali_feldspar View Post
    This is what should be made, and it would be a fantastic platform:

    180b milled lower. These already exist so we don't need to worry about the FRT timeline as existing ones could be used. Though a new lower which takes AR safeties, trigger pins and, bolt hold opens would be nice and totally possible. It could also be threaded for AR buffer tube or maybe AK stocks.

    180b stamped upper with:
    1: Modified barrel trunnion to take AR barrels.
    2: With the new barrel trunion make it accept AR barrel nuts and handguards.
    3: Use the same 180b BCG and recoil system to save engineering costs.
    4: Use off the shelf AR piston systems to save engineering costs.
    5: Pic rail on the receiver. No iron sights.

    I figure this rifle could be mostly made offshore for about $1500 MSRP and a $0.75 USD/CAD exchange.
    Problems with your idea (which is good but your cost estimate is way off)

    -Milled lower, yes they are already available but are around $400 Canadian to purchase
    -AR barrels? great idea
    -off the shelf AR piston kit? There is no such thing unless you go with aftermarket systems that are $500+ Canadian to purchase. You would have to manufacture your own to save money.
    -For a cheap entry level rifle that will without a doubt not have a match grade barrel and will be shooting surplus most of it's life I would rather have a nice set of irons like on a Swiss Arms and have a rail for dot sights if desired but somehow keep things low so the bore to sight height doesn't get too out of hand.


    One thing everyone dreaming about a rifle like this becoming reality needs to realize and accept is that to have it come in $1000-$1500 the rifle will have a cheap barrel and will NOT shoot 1 moa or better. I know we've all been brainwashed into thinking that these rifles have to be very accurate or they are junk but this simply isn't reality. Any rifle in the sub $2000 price range will provide typical rack grade rifle accuracy, reality is that most rifles are not capable of the level of accuracy we want even at $3000.
    Sure, take a $1750 BCL/NEA 102 and spend $400 on a new barrel and $400 on a trigger, then another few hundred on a BCG to make it reliable and then buy a new grip and stock for a couple hundred and you've got a decent rifle that is accurate and all of a sudden you have a $3000 $1800 rifle and it still has NEA/BCL on the side of it. I'd like to move forward and forget their past but they haven't shown that they have improved their quality control yet so to me they are still the same old company that has way too many warranty claims considering how few rifles are actually in customers hands.
    I know some guys are claiming that their 102 shoots very well but I haven't seen any proof of that yet. The "match" barrel supplied is a turd with a "match" chamber, this was a huge mistake in a semi auto as it only makes the rifle finicky with ammo in exchange for an almost unmeasurable increase in accuracy.
    The kind of accuracy and reliability we ask of our rifles is not anywhere near what we are willing to pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by MET View Post
    Just build it, don't talk about it, don't post about it, don't do the preorder BS. Once it is done just do the "BAM look what we have for you guys, the price is $***.** ,yes they are in stock and you may order it now".
    Agreed 100%

    Quote Originally Posted by doomguy1993 View Post
    Awesome! I never thought there was one. Now if it was like half the price then I'd be in. :P
    Don't worry, BCL/NEA will eventually build one (even though they currently say no) then you can spend half the money initially then replace half of it and end up with something decent.
    If you've handled an ATRS product you'll see that they are not building some cheap rack grade AR clone. I don't regret my decision to buy one but I am glad I was able to take advantage of someone else selling it cheap rather than paying full retail.
    Last edited by cr5; 10-27-2017 at 12:16 PM.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr5 View Post
    Just make the magwell removable like on an SL-8.
    I’m not familiar with that rifles disassembly but from what I’ve seen in the G36 conversions it would be just like that. And then the uppers could be swapped for different calibers and the magwells would match up with one or more uppers.

    The lower would be a one time sale per shooter, but money would be made on the uppers and magwell kits, which are unregulated so less paperwork/hassle. Only issue is for ease of use you’d have to have piston driven uppers, or a switch on the stock to go from piston to DI style operation depending on the upper. This idea would of course cost a lot in R&D but you’d be able to make an upper for any caliber if enough interest is shown.

    Maybe this is too complicated/ambitious for the Canadian market, maybe I’m the only one who’d buy it too. Just an idea I had.

  3. #103
    CGN frequent flyer CyprusTM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr5 View Post
    Just make the magwell removable like on an SL-8.



    Why would you volunteer to pay more than what they predict the cost to be?
    You either have more money than you know what to do with or you know nothing about it and will be a broke slave your whole life. You sound like a guy I used to work with that said we were overpaid for what we do, dumbest thing I'd ever heard up to that point.
    That's what some said about the mickey mouse rifle, that they would pay 2k not more, so they are now going to pay 2k instead of under 1500$. Some have more money than brains.

  4. #104
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    delete
    Last edited by Revv; 10-27-2017 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Delete double post

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybeachboy View Post
    Check this guys out for the kickstarter. They were at shot show this year its essentially dedicated for the firearms community.

    https://www.firefunder.com/

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=axrewTzOhZM
    Thank you for the post with the links to crowdfunding. I was wondering if there were even any options available for firearm crowdfunding. Nice to see.

  6. #106
    CGN frequent flyer CraigNConnor's Avatar
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    kiss your reliability out the window with swappable magwells...


    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos View Post
    I’m not familiar with that rifles disassembly but from what I’ve seen in the G36 conversions it would be just like that. And then the uppers could be swapped for different calibers and the magwells would match up with one or more uppers.

    The lower would be a one time sale per shooter, but money would be made on the uppers and magwell kits, which are unregulated so less paperwork/hassle. Only issue is for ease of use you’d have to have piston driven uppers, or a switch on the stock to go from piston to DI style operation depending on the upper. This idea would of course cost a lot in R&D but you’d be able to make an upper for any caliber if enough interest is shown.

    Maybe this is too complicated/ambitious for the Canadian market, maybe I’m the only one who’d buy it too. Just an idea I had.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigNConnor View Post
    kiss your reliability out the window with swappable magwells...
    If it’s slotted and slides in and is held in place correctly then there would be no movement, but if it’s pinned like an AR receiver then you’re right, it would have too much movement. Basically you can design it so it slides down along the front of the trigger area. Then the upper pins in to both the lower and the magwell. Not sure if it’s making sense, would be easier to make up a drawing lol.

  8. #108
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Sinasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKRZ View Post
    Would gladly pay north of $1000 for a NR Not-AR180B™ in 5.56x45.
    Special kind of stupid you are.

  9. #109
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer SteelCap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanAm View Post
    First step will likely be the AR180B lower, then the upper.

    Full gun price will be likely be under $1000.

    I will also have them pull the sample M10X we have here and have a look. Maybe do it as well, with a few changed to lower the price

  10. #110
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer SteelCap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKRZ View Post
    Would gladly pay north of $1000 for a NR Not-AR180B™ in 5.56x45.

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