Canadian made "black" rifle

[Travis Bickle]

That just leaves it open to a guy throwing a 7.5" AR barrel on it and now it's restricted, technically prohib, so they would have to be complete guns if you're going to use AR barrels etc

Agreed. The closer it becomes to an AR the closer it comes to "being" an AR at the lab....
Mags yes, FCG yes, barrel yes but it would have to stop around there I would think.

[Sunchild2071]

Look at the people throwing money as hard/fast as they can at the 102 despite it's inconsistent reliability and feeding problems etc etc It will be a long long time before they ever catch up on demand and the product is still in the grey questionable as far as I can see. Pumping out 20 rifles every 6 months or whatever. Ain't nobody got time for that. And the price tag climbed up to near $2K after tax anyhow.

20 rifles in 6 months? (Current run seems to be about 600)

Near $2K? I guess that depends on what your definition of near, is. (I figure $1836.45, all in)

Are you talking about the 102? Or something else?

[jiffx2781]

Freedom of speech lives at: canada gun forum . boards . net

^^^^^^

[870P]

High volume is what we need in this country for a NR black rifle Sir.
Not 15 rifles every 6 months on exclusive runs. We need a simple, cheap/affordable, light and reliable NR semi auto in 5.56mm and we need lots of them. If it can be all of those and still keep it under $1300 they can slam out 10 thousand a year and eventually flood the country, two for every man woman and child PAL holder.
That's why stamped can be cheaper. It will always be cheaper than milling, casting and forging especially like you said in high volume, which is what we need. Look at the people throwing money as hard/fast as they can at the 102 despite it's inconsistent reliability and feeding problems etc etc It will be a long long time before they ever catch up on demand and the product is still in the grey questionable as far as I can see. Pumping out 20 rifles every 6 months or whatever. Ain't nobody got time for that. And the price tag climbed up to near $2K after tax anyhow.

I doubt the Canadian market can generate the kind of demand that would give stamped recievers a production cost advantage, when that's not the case even the U.S. market.

Consider why U.S. made AKs cost at least as much as equivalent AR-15s?

The only domestically produced design I could see selling in large volume in our market would be a quality nonrestricted almost-an-AR-15 at a regular AR-15 price.

[jiffx2781]

I love my Famae SG-540. Only downfall is that there is nothing compatible with it. I've often wished for a very similar design that would take ar-15 trigger groups, ar pistol grips and standard ar-15 barrels. Ditch the piston system and make it DI to lose some weight.
Put out a standard version with a basic mil-spec trigger, generic barrel, basic handguard and iron sights.
This would give the manufacturer the ability to produce it cheaper by utilizing some already commonly available parts while still giving the consumer the ability to upgrade the main components that most wish to upgrade.
Love my Famae, hate the price and the inability to upgrade triggers and barrels.
Maybe something like this could be done?

[VinnyQC]

Who gives a F... wheter the receiver is stamped, milled or forged in the volcano of mount doom!!!! The AR-180b already has a NR FRT. Any other gun you come up with will not only take 2 years to get an FRT, but it'll also run the risk of being restricted, and then it's an automatic financial failure.

The AR180b doesn't sell in US because the AR15 was there before it. In Canada the AR15 is literally inexistent for 96% of PAL holders (if my memory is correct). The success of the BCL102 is proof that the canadian market will gobble up just about any amount of black semi-auto NR rifle. When all is said and done, when you compare a 102 with a similarly priced restricted AR10, the AR10 will come out ahead, yet sales of AR10 are dismal in canada while BCL can't produce the 102 fast enough.

At this point I believe the only question is who will bring a cheap (sub 900$) black semi-auto NR 223 rifle to market first. Whoever does will make a bundle. Whoever comes second will barely sell. And going for a design that already has a NR FRT will beat the competition by a year or 2. So I wouldn't be surprised if BCL was already working on their own version of AR180b.

And if you want a 3000$+ NR semi-auto, there's the MV. It's already available, and from what I understand they sell only a couple a year.

[Sunchild2071]

I have to admit, that I'd only be interested, if something was developed in the 7.62 families.

5.56 - zero interest, for me, anyways. I am likely not in a majority group.

[happyzappy]

Ar180 lower, I am hesitant and think would be a deal killer for me, but interested to see what comes of this regardless.

[Travis Bickle]

I love my Famae SG-540. Only downfall is that there is nothing compatible with it. I've often wished for a very similar design that would take ar-15 trigger groups, ar pistol grips and standard ar-15 barrels. Ditch the piston system and make it DI to lose some weight.
Put out a standard version with a basic mil-spec trigger, generic barrel, basic handguard and iron sights.
This would give the manufacturer the ability to produce it cheaper by utilizing some already commonly available parts while still giving the consumer the ability to upgrade the main components that most wish to upgrade.
Love my Famae, hate the price and the inability to upgrade triggers and barrels.
Maybe something like this could be done?

Agreed strongly.
Make some components like FCG and barrel AR15 compatible and you would have a near winner as long as cost could be kept low.
Keep it cheap, keep it simple, keep it light on materials.

[Travis Bickle]

Who gives a F... wheter the receiver is stamped, milled or forged in the volcano of mount doom!!!! The AR-180b already has a NR FRT. Any other gun you come up with will not only take 2 years to get an FRT, but it'll also run the risk of being restricted, and then it's an automatic financial failure.

The AR180b doesn't sell in US because the AR15 was there before it. In Canada the AR15 is literally inexistent for 96% of PAL holders (if my memory is correct). The success of the BCL102 is proof that the canadian market will gobble up just about any amount of black semi-auto NR rifle. When all is said and done, when you compare a 102 with a similarly priced restricted AR10, the AR10 will come out ahead, yet sales of AR10 are dismal in canada while BCL can't produce the 102 fast enough.

At this point I believe the only question is who will bring a cheap (sub 900$) black semi-auto NR 223 rifle to market first. Whoever does will make a bundle. Whoever comes second will barely sell. And going for a design that already has a NR FRT will beat the competition by a year or 2. So I wouldn't be surprised if BCL was already working on their own version of AR180b.

And if you want a 3000$+ NR semi-auto, there's the MV. It's already available, and from what I understand they sell only a couple a year.

I'm good with the 180b. It's an excellent rifle. I owned two over the years.
Only reason I sold them was because complete lack of critical parts availability.
It could be produced for very little. Especially with the polymer lowers. It would be a licensing problem though if it were a reproduction. Armalite still owns it I believe.
That would likely drive up the cost (royalties) I would assume.
Not sure what else people want in a simple, cheap, reliable semi auto in this country? Hell it took AR15 FCG and mags. I'm thinking a lot of people who hate on the rifle have likely never shot one or owned one for a period of time. Just parroting posts from this website mostly.