Nr ! That is ?
|
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Nr ! That is ?
Current +/-'s of Black rifles in Canada.
AR - Restricted. + Lego. Cheap. Parts everywhere. Can be anything you want
XCR. - Heavy (especially older ones). Lock-tite issues. Pricey for what it is. +Some common parts. Decent support in Canada
ACR. - Heavy, depending on config. Lack of parts. Really Pricey with a re-barrel to NR. + Accurate
Tavor. - Heavy. Mediocre accuracy. Egos not for everyone. Likes expensive ammo. +Compact and decent support in Canada
858,vz.58,WR762. - No decent options for optics. Right side charging handle only. Prices have climbed beyond what they are worth. + Lots of parts and mags cheaply available.
SL8 - Heavy, Expensive. + accurate.
Mini14 - Accuracy, Parts, Mags, not really a black rifle + Lightest, cheapest option on the market.
The other fringe stuff, shares such a small market that everything is a tradeoff.
So to address all the short comings:
NR.
Common parts (as many as possible, such as mags, grips, forends, etc)
Decently accurate. 1.5 MOA if doable. Pencil barrel, with a twist rate to stabilize 55 grain (for 5.56) and a bore size to shoot 7.62 surplus.
Weight. 6.5 lbs dry would be perfect with a minimal stock and irons on board.
Optics ready. Put a frikin rail on the damn thing already!
Ambi. Reversible charging handle/reversible ejection would make the heretics happy.
Price. If this could be done around the 1K mark, you wouldn't be able to build enough of them
As long as it's easy to strip and clean, and doesn't have some weird manual of arms, and is durable enough not to have parts fly off and last AT LEAST 10-15K rounds, i would buy at least 2, because 1 is none and 2 is one.
Personally i wouldn't care if it was finished with BBQ paint. I'll spend $20 on krylon and make it my own.
GET 'ER DONE!
Looking down the barrel, of 1984...
Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Foxtrot Oscar.
It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. - Claire Wolfe
Sounds good to me.
Optics ready puts it ahead of any similar battle rifle at similar cost - type 81, cz
I'd be in
Schrödinger's Gat - The logical paradox which posits that a firearm, stored safe in the home, is at the same time On The Streets
Not that it really matter but CSA vz 58s come with left side charging handles nowOriginally Posted by jparent
"What I am worried about is repeated hits to that area with .308 ammunition.
I have a high-risk security job and I fear that I would be the target
for repeated long-distance shots to my back."
-gecko45
pretty much sums up what we want. Would be in every gunnies safe.
So I've read this thread and I like the concept of it. I agree that the Canadian NR semi auto market needs a basic plinker design that is utilitarian, reliable, affordable and uses some existing parts to offer end-user customization.
I think a good candidate would be something based off the Leader T2 as mentioned by another user - similar design elements from the AR180 but still somewhat different. It's a basic rifle designed to be inexpensive to produce (folded or stamped steel, welded in place, 3 lug triangular bolt, AR-180 style gas system). Forgotten Weapons did a great video on it: https://youtu.be/0hmJXqHoxac
Masterpiece Arms revived the design somewhat into their MPAR rifle. It wasn't exactly a hit. It's a little too flashy and some elements look downright silly like the gigantic handguard.
I think the basic Leader T2 design has a lot of promise. I'm no engineer but I think it might be possible to design a removable magazine well, or at least offer different magwell lowers (ie, one that uses STANAG and another that takes AK pattern mags). The lower could be made to accept AK or AR hardware (pistol grips or stocks). However, I would make the rifle more minimalist than the somewhat gaudy MPAR style. I would offer it with a flat top upper, a slim, low-profile handguard with easy access to the gas port (or at least a cutoutin the handguard to adjust the gas key with a cartridge). I'm leaning towards the look of the Gen2 Keltec Sub2000 MLOK handguard, although maybe not quite so low profile. I would only produce the handguard in one version - MLOK. It's easier to manufacture than Keymod, and let's face it, MLOK is the new standard. No need for beefy, chunky M1913 rails - you want to add them? Great, go buy the rail segments yourself.
I would go a step further with this minimalist concept. Take a page from Colt with their OEM carbine offerings - Offer this rifle as a 'no frills' NR rifle with no pistol grip and no stock (just the extension tube for the AR stock model) to keep the cost as low as possible and it lets end users put their own BUIS, optic, grip and stock. The rifle comes with no magazine, no MLOK accessories, no swag, and only in one colour - black. Maybe if there's enough market interest and enough get sold, custom cerakote models will come out later. You can go a step further and offer it with no muzzle device to reduce costs further - just a basic plastic muzzle cap to protect the threads and the crown. Offer it in standard AR thread pitches and let customers choose their own muzzle devices. I know it doesn't sound especially appealing, but I'm thinking purely of keeping costs to a minimum and letting the enthusiast owners put their own touches on their rifles as they see fit.
So I'm thinking of a few very simple versions:
1. The 'ready to go out of the box' .223 version - MBUS sights, MOE grip, MOE stock, A2 flash hider, maybe a couple MLOK covers or rail segments. 1-2 PMags.
2. The 'ready to go out of the box' x39 version - MBUS sights, MOE AK grip, Zhukov or Magpul fixed AK stock, MLOK covers, 1-2 AK PMags.
3. The 'OEM' or 'DIY .223 version - No BUIS, takes AR pistol grips (none included), takes AR stocks (none included), accepts MLOK accessories (none included), takes standard AR muzzle devices (none included), no mags (takes AR mags)
4. The 'OEM' or 'DIY' x39 version - as above, but takes AK hardware.
Last edited by Milofficer; 10-30-2017 at 07:32 PM.
Excellent Concept A++++
Now we need some concept sketches of this with approved AR180 Lower Modified to suit.
Well done !
Get Er Done !
J-Bear
YES! The bare-bones concept is exactly what is needed. Keeps cost down and lets consumers pick their own setup from the get-go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A97rXunNItk
Video shows NDS180 with AR15 parts
I'll try to make a basic sketch of a modified NR T2 along the lines of what I was suggesting.
Posting Permissions
