Canadian made "black" rifle

[norlandgeese]

Also don’t forget there are many forms of plinking that people can enjoy, not all sessions have to be high speed low drag fully costumed 1000 rounds dump on bad-guy papers. As fun as that is.

[xdmer]

Definitely in many ways, but I think a semi is what many are looking for. The PAR is interesting, but I wish they didn't go quite so black rifle with it.

Guy at the range was shooting a Troy PAR, something similar may have potential here.

Much as the Troy PAR is awesome in many ways, I think most guys here would really like to see a semi auto come out of this.

[jparent]

I think we get it, you want a low cost black rifle plinker, and 180b has been beaten to death.

This holds no interest for me and many others I think, but it will sell and then people will be unhappy.

I seem to recall lots of comments crapping on XCR's being semi auto not worth it due to such an expensive gun needing to be sub moa, blah blah, against it's design intentions or even some basic tuning. -Even when pricing wasn't as high as today.

Now all the sudden so-so semi auto accuracy is okay in a new black rifle design? With 556 / 7.62x39 for plinking? The argument you're making is a 102 in smaller calibers but basing on the 180b receiver because? Reasons. There is a market for 308, and the 102 isn't what it was cracked up to be, and I don't see their quality or pricing getting better.

I think we have a real opportunity to innovate, and consider a multipurpose, multi-caliber supported design (notice I'm not saying quick change). Not a me too Black NR or Copy of this or that. Intentionally thought out design would be nice.

Well yeah. As i pointed out above, the XCR's shortcomings are 1. Heavy (at least the original models). 2. Mediocre accuracy and 3. Price. It's a 2 moa average gun AT BEST, that is priced like a Noveski AR. If it was an AR, it would be $600 buck tops.

Take what the XCR is (in it's lightweight config) for $1000 and you couldn't keep them on the shelves.

[Nowara]

There are lots of parts out there for SL8 / G36 Rifles
Is a SL8 / AR / Hera Hybrid possible?
The upper must be the registered part?
https://www.hera-arms.com/
https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-G36-SL8-c13.htm
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/hk-g36-sl8/parts.html
http://www.spuhr.biz/hk-g36-sl8-upgrades
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/hk_sl81.pdf

[xdmer]

I hear you, purpose build 556 and 7.62x39 is needed as is 308. Long shots for a project like this. I was surprised by the T81 accuracy, but don't recall what they were feeding it.

Tolerances and harmonics can be balanced, axial aliment and squared action in a semi will make a big difference. Lots of semi autos aren't designed to support DMR style shooting, but with some thought in this respect to help the person behind the trigger can help.

Clean trigger, tight stock, proper points for mounting bipods or support rests etc.. Little things not directly related to the action can improve the accuracy potential, a lot.

Just an adjustable gas system and a good brake can make a huge difference with various ammo.

I have never wanted a precision black gun. It's an oxymoron. I have a bolt action rifle for when I want to break out the calipers and measure dots.
The XCR is a great gun. It's greatest flaw in this country is the cost. Just like every single NR black rifle.
Again, if we could have NR AR15's we wouldn't even be having this conversation. But we can't.
People complain about accuracy in a semi auto black rifle because they expect more than reality can offer. Then they get really mad when fantasies don't come true. Excellent case in point is the recent results from caliber magazine showing the type 81 to be a 5+ MOA rifle and people are losing their minds lol It's a sloppy Chinese Modified SKS action, I guess they were expecting PGW hand load precision again. But it's $1K. That's bang on for the money with iron sights. It's probably reliable as all hell to boot.
Now we just need to build something like it in Canada in 5.56 to address the fact that we can't have an AR and we get bent over a table to buy whatever not as good alternative.
It's very frustrating.

[Travis Bickle]

I hear you, purpose build 556 and 7.62x39 is needed as is 308. Long shots for a project like this. I was surprised by the T81 accuracy, but don't recall what they were feeding it.

Tolerances and harmonics can be balanced, axial aliment and squared action in a semi will make a big difference. Lots of semi autos aren't designed to support DMR style shooting, but with some thought in this respect to help the person behind the trigger can help.

Clean trigger, tight stock, proper points for mounting bipods or support rests etc.. Little things not directly related to the action can improve the accuracy potential, a lot.

Just an adjustable gas system and a good brake can make a huge difference with various ammo.

They fired everything from Hornady Match stuff to Surplus Chinese.
Across the board in stock config it was aprox 5 MOA average. Again, that's plenty accurate for a loose modified SKS action rifle with sight radius of like 8 inches and irons lol
The price is right too. $1000. Not bad! Seems to be very reliable though they reported some problems they associated to a "bad magazine"
Now we need a Canadian made, "AR similar" rifle in 5.56mm around the same price!

[Daver_II]

Delay blowback .223 or 7.72x39 based on 10/22 platform that takes stanag mags

Done.

[xdmer]

So after putting in too much time and energy trying to bring honest discussion to other threads, and getting nowhere - I'm back here to be more positive.

So what are the chances of any discussion here coming into fruition? Is this something Canada Ammo is interested in and how can we participate?

[Travis Bickle]

So after putting in too much time and energy trying to bring honest discussion to other threads, and getting nowhere - I'm back here to be more positive.

So what are the chances of any discussion here coming into fruition? Is this something Canada Ammo is interested in and how can we participate?

Same.
Would like to hear something from companies/dealers who have brought things like this to the table before.
What is the process, what needs to be done etc?

[Claven2]

Nothing will ever happen that pleases averyone, but if you really want to slay the m10x, you need a cheaper rifle in a similar niche in 7.62x39.

I vote AR180B clone with metal lower in 7.62x39 for $1000 or less.

Should be very doable.