Canadian made "black" rifle

[norlandgeese]

I don’t need bolt gun accuracy, AR accuracy is plenty good. I need it off-the-shelf quality.
Actually if someone else with superior QC comes up with XYZ-102, that’s would be perfect.

Cheap, reliable and .308 are getting into that twilight zone of non realistic Canadian gun owner demands once again IMO.
They had a home run with the 102 and ####ed it up because of exactly this. If it's a .308 people want bolt action precision or hell! Then they want bolt action precision in a semi auto. Then they want loose battle rifle tolerance reliability. Then they want it for as cheap as possible. Then we get the 102.....

.308 is expensive. Especially for punching paper and ringing steel, plinking, pop can exploding, close up tactical drills for guys that are into that stuff etc etc 5.56mm can be had in bulk cheap for less than $0.50 a round still, even less when the deals are on. Low recoil means lighter design, less materials, lower cost rifle.
7.62x39mm is temporarily appealing due to current relatively low price on surplus but once the surplus dries up (it will one day) or there is a shortage, it's going to go up and then we're dependent on foreign/international world events to get affordable ammo maybe. Commercial NA produced 7.62x39 is not cheap.

The AR180 is where it's at with moderate revisions (not the AR180b) and some AR15 parts compatibility. Keep the Lower/Upper and the BCG proprietary and there is no chance in hell they can AR variant it.

[Nowara]

Now we need a drawing / picture / 3D cad of the new AR180 - Maple Leaf v1
Using AR15 Components, and off the shelf accessories.
A manufacturer to be lead dog.
Crowd funding to move forward.
Get Er Done

[Kjm1971]

I can't imagine why anyone would want to build a gun for the Canadian market; anything less than 100% reliability, sub moa, modular, fully developed assessories aftermarket, all for $999 and it would be chewed up on forums from coast to coast, with half the people cheering for it to fail and the other half waiting for the price to drop to $699 and be in the 7th generation where every mating surface is lovingly hand polished by artisans in Sarnia. All for a market that can be destroyed at the stroke of a pen by some bureaucrat or rcmp lab assistant.

[Mark-II]

So long as it's not a 5moa shotgun like the Type 81 that Calibre tested was, there'd be worse things to spend a grand on.

Like a type 81

[Travis Bickle]

I can get surplus at about $0.43 right now, .

Right now yes.
You used to be able to get 7.62x54R for $0.25 a round about 4 years ago
Now it's about $0.40 a round and it's not anywhere near as available as it used to be.
I bought an SVT 40 for $229 about 5 years ago. Now you can barely find them. If you do they go for around $600
That's the problem with surplus. It dries up or we can't import it, then it gets way more expensive, then it disappears.

[Mr_Mike]

but it's not patented for those things, XCR is patented for it's improved bolt and extractor. I don't think there were any brand new innovations like that with the M10X..

given their generous use of 'Match' and 'DMR' in their marketing, pretty sure if they had a patent or one pending they would have mentioned it about a dozen times!

i know they got into a patent beef with magpul over the bolt hold-open/ release.

but the point is if you want to "clone" a new design which has patented features it won't happen without legal costs.

personally i think a cz clone that takes ak mags would be relatively straightforward for a x39 case cartridge.

[Mr_Mike]

I can't imagine why anyone would want to build a gun for the Canadian market; anything less than 100% reliability, sub moa, modular, fully developed assessories aftermarket, all for $999 and it would be chewed up on forums from coast to coast, with half the people cheering for it to fail and the other half waiting for the price to drop to $699 and be in the 7th generation where every mating surface is lovingly hand polished by artisans in Sarnia. All for a market that can be destroyed at the stroke of a pen by some bureaucrat or rcmp lab assistant.

what ppl say on the web is not as important as what they actually spent their money on. tavor isn't close to moa costs close to 3K new (with taxes, optics and, accessories will easily go north of that) and shooters buy'em

[Kjm1971]

what ppl say on the web is not as important as what they actually spent their money on. tavor isn't close to moa costs close to 3K new (with taxes, optics and, accessories will easily go north of that) and shooters buy'em

If it was restricted they would have never sold 10 of them at that price. I doubt many of the importers really want to see something like the AR moved to non-restricted as they would lose the gouging opportunity bringing in various half-baked over priced non-restricted junk for us to drool over gives them.

[Longarm9]

If it was restricted they would have never sold 10 of them at that price. I doubt many of the importers really want to see something like the AR moved to non-restricted as they would lose the gouging opportunity bringing in various half-baked over priced non-restricted junk for us to drool over gives them.

That's all the more reason this project must happen.

[Travis Bickle]

If it was restricted they would have never sold 10 of them at that price. I doubt many of the importers really want to see something like the AR moved to non-restricted as they would lose the gouging opportunity bringing in various half-baked over priced non-restricted junk for us to drool over gives them.

Hahaha hard, blunt and totally hitting the nail on head.
I agree 100%
But again, all the more reason we need this rifle. The Canadian common mans NR semi auto black rifle. A gun for the people/for the masses.