Canadian made "black" rifle

[Travis Bickle]

Someone just pump out a stamped, cheap, reliable, semi-auto 5.56mm rifle for Christs Sake.
It doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't need to do 0.0003 MOA.
Just make it light, cheap, NR, take STANAG mags and around $1500 and you won't be able to keep them on the shelves. What are we 25 years post firearms act and noone in Canada has figured this out yet!?
Fack someone please just clone an AR180b but change parts X,Y,Z of the design to not breach copyright and they would be millionaires in a year.
I thought the 102 was going to pull it off but again they missed the whole point. Too much focus on bolt action precision made it require more materials thus more expensive and most important, not consistently reliable.
So close but off by a hundred damned miles and right back to square one again. The middle class, common-man Canadian gun owner majority is still waiting with wallets open.........

[Travis Bickle]

I'm not crazy about an AR-180 type design as they are ugly and chintzy feeling and have never been particularly successful for a reason.

How about a Valmet? Has anybody looked into what it'd cost to acquire the manufacturing rights?

I've always liked the looks and form factor of the FG-42, a modernized, mechanically simplified version would be cool.

Valmets are not going to happen. They aren't going to ever allow any AK47 clone through the lab on a technicality. It's been addressed by dealers already and shot down. It's a sloppy ass Kalashnikov with a machined receiver anyhow. Machining costs a lot of money. Stamped metal does not so much.
To produce a modern FG-42 would be very expensive, again machining of the receivers, complexity of the design etc etc

I'm thinking along 180b/FAMAE stamped metal style.
The 180 didn't catch on because the AR15 already existed in the USA Sir. It had zero appeal in this country either until the FA came into effect. Would you now say that the AR180b has not caught on in this country? If you could buy one for $1200 or so brand new with full parts support made in Canada today, you're saying you wouldn't buy one?
Everyone and their dog would have one in their locker. You have to put the country we live in into the context of this. If we could have NR AR15's we wouldn't even be having this conversion/this thread would not exist.

So what is the solution? Canada made NR black rifle that's cheap, reliable and 2 MOA accuracy. Light on materials, light on cost, easy to manufacture.
The AR15 is not a robust gun either. It's very reliable but it's also cheap and easy to manufacture, rack grade AR's are 2MOA at best.
If that means a stamped metal receiver then so be it, who cares if it doesn't "feel solid" what are you going to do with it? Pole vaulting or softball? You just hold it and shoot it.

That's why this rifle still does not exist. Look at how we criticize any rifle that can't hollow out a dime at 200 meters; it's instantly flamed, lambasted and boycotted. If you want bolt action accuracy buy a bolt gun. We always think we need to design the next gun to the current US ####ing Army specs or something. This is Canada and I'm a target shooter. It doesn't have to be a german engineering based battle tank, it's needs to be a Toyota Corolla!

[nevrvetr]

What about something the the style of the MSBS Grot? Quite modular, for those into that...

[870P]

I'm thinking along 180b/FAMAE stamped metal style.
The 180 didn't catch on because the AR15 already existed in the USA Sir. It had zero interest in this country either until the FA came into effect. Would you now say that the AR180b has not caught on in this country? If you could buy one for $1200 or so with full parts support made in Canada today, you're saying you wouldn't buy one?
Everyone and their dog would have one in their locker. You have to put the country we live in into the context of this. If we could have NR AR15's we wouldn't even be having this conversion/this thread would not exist.

I'd certainly consider a 54X style rifle but the AR-180 just doesn't do it for me.

Stamping also isn't particularly cheap unless you're producing in high volume, there's a reason that you don't see too many more recent firearm designs that utilize stamping for the receiver vs extrusions and other methods.

[RKRZ]

I agree with everyone who says it should take as many AR parts as possible (barrel, handguard, stock, grip, trigger/FCG, etc.). Sell completed receivers and leave total price up to the end user.

[condomboy]

I agree with everyone who says it should take as many AR parts as possible (barrel, handguard, stock, grip, trigger/FCG, etc.). Sell completed receivers and leave total price up to the end user.

That just leaves it open to a guy throwing a 7.5" AR barrel on it and now it's restricted, technically prohib, so they would have to be complete guns if you're going to use AR barrels etc

[tootall]

Or just clone the m78. I wonder if it's even still trademarked...

Somebody would done it already if it were that simple.

I'm fairly sure you'd need to buy the right to the Valmet name in order for it to be exempt from being prohibited.

Don't even go there.
You risk having the real Valmets reclassified.
If that happens, you will become the most hated man on this board!

[kennyclone]

That just leaves it open to a guy throwing a 7.5" AR barrel on it and now it's restricted, technically prohib, so they would have to be complete guns if you're going to use AR barrels etc

not exactly different than anyone who owns an ACR or XCR here.

[DaveMachine]

Subbed.

I like the idea of modular mag wells if it can be made to run reliably without jacking the price too high. Otherwise, I can live without them.

[Travis Bickle]

I'd certainly consider a 54X style rifle but the AR-180 just doesn't do it for me.

Stamping also isn't particularly cheap unless you're producing in high volume, there's a reason that you don't see too many more recent firearm designs that utilize stamping for the receiver vs extrusions and other methods.

High volume is what we need in this country for a NR black rifle Sir.
Not 15 rifles every 6 months on exclusive runs. We need a simple, cheap/affordable, light and reliable NR semi auto in 5.56mm and we need lots of them. If it can be all of those and still keep it under $1300 they can slam out 10 thousand a year and eventually flood the country, two for every man woman and child PAL holder.
That's why stamped can be cheaper. It will always be cheaper than milling, casting and forging especially like you said in high volume, which is what we need. Look at the people throwing money as hard/fast as they can at the 102 despite it's inconsistent reliability and feeding problems etc etc It will be a long long time before they ever catch up on demand and the product is still in the grey questionable as far as I can see. Pumping out 20 rifles every 6 months or whatever. Ain't nobody got time for that. And the price tag climbed up to near $2K after tax anyhow.