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Thread: Garrison Petawawa PR Clinic 24-25 March 2018 Debrief Here!!

  1. #61
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer MartyK2500's Avatar
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    Thanks

    When it says PR1, can someone new that didn’t attend clinic attend?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyK2500 View Post
    Thanks

    When it says PR1, can someone new that didn’t attend clinic attend?
    Yeah sure thing. We’ve been doing raw beginners for the past three seasons without a formal clinic so it’s all good.

    Just look up any of the PR matches and their itinerary in these seasons: 2015,2016, and 2017.....it’s all good!!

    Cheers, Barney

  3. #63
    CGN Regular cycoblade's Avatar
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    Anybody wanna split a room?

  4. #64
    CGN Regular shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycoblade View Post
    Anybody wanna split a room?
    I'd be in on that!

  5. #65
    CGN frequent flyer Shelldrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTeacher View Post
    Here comes the horror story....for decades we shot PR matches at the Connaught Ranges with DCRA NSCC styles. As the volunteer Butts Officer on my non-shooting relays, I would always receive a Shzt Load of challenges from frustrated Mil and Police snipers at the 800m stages...

    The 168 gr SMK was travel at a subsonic velocity and would SLAP that 4 foot target...no SNAP sound of a supersonic booolit overhead. The issued 168’s would be yawing and also arriving sideways. Groups opened up an d shooters would get mad at me after I denied all their challenges for say, a higher value....
    This was the issue Norma Match ammo loaded with the 168 SMK, and with it's conservative muzzle velocity, and on a stinking hot, humid day was in the transonic zone before 800m. Didn't happen every day, but it happened more than enough to make life miserable for anyone shooting a C3 rifle.

    I believe the general consensus is that the boat tail angle of the 168 SMK is too steep, and when it enters the transonic range makes is susceptible to stability issues. Groups may open up, or as it yaws and wobbles about it can loose velocity faster than it should and go subsonic sooner than it should.

    Other clones of the 168 SMK would have the same problems.

    The transonic range begins at about Mach 1.2 as the bullet speed drops below about 1340 fps, plus or minus.

    That being said, I think the 167 Scenar is not a clone, and has a much shallower boat tail angle and should handle the transonic zone better than the 168 SMK. I suggest giving them a good try, and if they don't work, then I would gladly take them off your hands. I've seen factory Lapua ammo (167 Scenar) shoot crazy small groups out to 800m.

    Otherwise, go lighter but faster, or heavier but slower. Lighter means less recoil, heavier means more recoil, so there is always this kind of trade off for you to decide on. Whatever works best for you and your style of shooting.

    Couple of good reads here:

    http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-and-accuracy/

    http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...bility-and-bc/

    Take care,
    Dave
    Last edited by Shelldrake; 01-05-2018 at 11:03 PM. Reason: grammar

  6. #66
    CGN frequent flyer Northern Amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelldrake View Post
    This was the issue Norma Match ammo loaded with the 168 SMK, and with it's conservative muzzle velocity, and on a stinking hot, humid day was in the transonic zone before 800m. Didn't happen every day, but it happened more than enough to make life miserable for anyone shooting a C3 rifle.

    I believe the general consensus is that the boat tail angle of the 168 SMK is too steep, and when it enters the transonic range makes is susceptible to stability issues. Groups may open up, or as it yaws and wobbles about it can loose velocity faster than it should and go subsonic sooner than it should.

    Other clones of the 168 SMK would have the same problems.

    The transonic range begins at about Mach 1.2 as the bullet speed drops below about 1340 fps, plus or minus.

    That being said, I think the 168 Scenar is not a clone, and has a much shallower boat tail angle and should handle the transonic zone better than the 168 SMK. I suggest giving them a good try, and if they don't work, then I would gladly take them off your hands. I've seen factory Lapua ammo (167 Scenar) shoot crazy small groups out to 800m.

    Otherwise, go lighter but faster, or heavier but slower. Lighter means less recoil, heavier means more recoil, so there is always this kind of trade off for you to decide on. Whatever works best for you and your style of shooting.

    Couple of good reads here:

    http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-and-accuracy/

    http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...bility-and-bc/

    Take care,
    Dave
    Thanks for the info. Being new to this long range stuff and just recently got back in to reloading after a 30yrs hiatus, I have been doing some research on what might work best. I have read some good things about the lapua 167gr scenar which is why I bought some. That being said, I only ordered 300 so after load development, zeroing and enough for the shoot itself, doubt there will be any left over
    Still shopping for other 'stuff' and making my wife nuts. That too is part of the fun!!

    cheers,

  7. #67
    CGN Regular TurboTapin's Avatar
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    Gents,

    WIth all this subsonic talk, how reliable are ballistic charts usually? With my current 223 load that I was planning on coming with, they will make it out to 800 yards before going subsonic. With this being said, I'm certain with more load development I can get an extra 200 ft/sec. Is it worth chasing? Or will I be fine for 600 yards?

    Thanks

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboTapin View Post
    Gents,

    WIth all this subsonic talk, how reliable are ballistic charts usually? With my current 223 load that I was planning on coming with, they will make it out to 800 yards before going subsonic. With this being said, I'm certain with more load development I can get an extra 200 ft/sec. Is it worth chasing? Or will I be fine for 600 yards?

    Thanks
    First of all , your dick won’t fall off.....

    Yeah trust your calculator and it’s numbers. They are spooky accurate.... okay , that aside, what booolit are you launching out of your 223 chamber?

    I’ve had piles of success sending the Hornady 75 gr Amax booolit out past 800m

    All great fun....

    Cheers, Barney

  9. #69
    CGN Regular TurboTapin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTeacher View Post
    First of all , your dick won’t fall off.....

    Yeah trust your calculator and it’s numbers. They are spooky accurate.... okay , that aside, what booolit are you launching out of your 223 chamber?

    I’ve had piles of success sending the Hornady 75 gr Amax booolit out past 800m

    All great fun....

    Cheers, Barney
    Haha perfect. I'm using 75gr Hornady Match(The original, non amax) at an MV of 2500ft/sec(Measured on a -30c day).

  10. #70
    CGN frequent flyer Northern Amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalTeacher View Post
    First of all , your dick won’t fall off.....

    Yeah trust your calculator and it’s numbers. They are spooky accurate.... okay , that aside, what booolit are you launching out of your 223 chamber?

    I’ve had piles of success sending the Hornady 75 gr Amax booolit out past 800m

    All great fun....

    Cheers, Barney


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