HEXMAG 10 round 30 round body... Prohibited Please read....

[hbean]

All this could be solved with a mass petition to change mag limits to 10-15 rounds, provided we get a conservative government in who might listen to a petition. (i know i'm in my own dream land)

NFA collected one along with another one about removing the AR off from the restricted list a couple years, they managed to collected about 25,000 names before the board of directors imploded.

[Jaylegger]

Agreed, petitions don't do anything here, the supressor and AR15 petitions were both kyboshed

You are so wrong, these petitions have an indelible effect. When the opposition sees only 10k signatures on seemingly important gun matters that can only be interpreted as a win which only emboldens them for more restrictions. I do agree with your post though, these petitions do little more than offer up proof of how impotent we really are.

[VinnyQC]

I assume people were referring to the S&W MP15-22 rimfire rifle/pistol which had a lot of magazines floating around the country before the pistol was introduced/known about, that had to be either repinned, replaced, or destroyed.

The S&W MP15-22 pistol doesn't seem to be "commonly available" either 5 register pistols don't seem like a lot, unless commonly available means it is currently being produced.

Which might open up another line of questioning, if S&W stopped making MP15-22 "pistols" are they no longer commonly available?

If a firearm has an entry in the FRT then it's commonly available (unless the entry is prohibited AND nobody owns that weapon under a 12(x) licence). So the moment a 10-22 charger or MP15-22 pistol was registered, the >10 rounds mags were prohibited. At least according to the rcmp lab.

In the case of the MP15-22, no one made any wave because S&W openly said they designed and manufacture the mags for pistol and rifles. In the case of the butler creek magazines, they were designed and manufactured for 10-22 rifles years (decades) before the charger pistol existed, so the definition of "designed and manufactured for a rifle" is obvious. Just like a glock mag is "designed and manufactured" for a glock, regardless of the possibility to use it in a JR carbine (which is a rifle).

In the case of these mags, if you mark on the packaging that they are for "M16, AR15, ..." then you openly scream to the world that they are "designed and manufactured for a rifle", regardless of whether they are also "designed and manufactured" for a pistol.

The rule is quite simple:
1-If a magazines is "designed and manufactured" for a rifle, then the maximum amount of rounds is 5 (of the round it is designed for), but that maximum doesn't apply if it is rimfire;
2-If a magazines is "designed and manufactured" for a pistol, then the maximum amount of round is 10 (of the round it is designed for).

The rcmp lab can attest as to how many rounds a magazine can contain, they are expert in that field. They have no business even having an opinion on which firearm a magazine is "designed and manufactured" for. That's why the M&P15-22 mags should be allowed 10 rounds max but the butler creek should be allowed any amount.

But in this case it doesn't matter. This magazine (the hexmag) is designed for a rifle, according to the manufacturer, so it is prohibited because the maximum amount of round is 5 while it can contain 10. Unless it is pinned to 5. And that's even before we start with the way the amount of rounds is reduced. The law says it must be permanent, and the plug is everything but permanent.

It's so simple I'm not sure why this is even questionnable. If they had at least marketed it for pistol only and glued the plug inside, then the conversation would be different. It's like they purposefully wanted to make these mags rifle mags.

[Suther]

The Merriam-Webster defines pistol carbine as a pistol, no mention of rifle

Definition of pistol carbine

: a pistol that has a removable butt piece and is therefore capable of being used as a pistol or as a carbine

A dictionary definition is not proof the term is actually used. Show me an example of a pistol carbine being advertised or marketed as such.

Besides that, if you put stock on an AR pistol in the US (where these mags are made) it becomes a rifle, so by the law of the country in which these mags are manufactured, a pistol carbine isn't a thing. (with the exception of old browning hi powers, lugers, ect with stocks)

Furthermore, that still doesn't get around the fact that the part that limits the magazine is removable, which would make it prohib right there.


Now don't get me wrong. I'd love these to be legal. I just don't see how that's possible considering the way our laws are written.

[tharkhold]

Anyone with a shred of common sense and a bit of knowledge of the english language will think of carbine as a shorter rifle, not as a pistol. That's why barrel length for AR15 are defined as pistol, carbine, mid-length or full length. You register most (all?) carbine-length AR15 as restricted rifles, not as a pistol.

Agreed!

For anyone unsure of the Government of Canada's words/definitions, please use termium:

http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv...t=1#resultrecs

Carbine (fr: Carabine)

"In military language, shorter and lighter model of the general issue service rifle."

"In civilian language, rifle having a shorter than normal length."



That's what the government will refer back to, unless a specific definition is written in a Code of Law.

[Suther]

If a firearm has an entry in the FRT then it's commonly available (unless the entry is prohibited AND nobody owns that weapon under a 12(x) licence). So the moment a 10-22 charger or MP15-22 pistol was registered, the >10 rounds mags were prohibited. At least according to the rcmp lab.

In the case of the MP15-22, no one made any wave because S&W openly said they designed and manufacture the mags for pistol and rifles. In the case of the butler creek magazines, they were designed and manufactured for 10-22 rifles years (decades) before the charger pistol existed, so the definition of "designed and manufactured for a rifle" is obvious. Just like a glock mag is "designed and manufactured" for a glock, regardless of the possibility to use it in a JR carbine (which is a rifle).

In the case of these mags, if you mark on the packaging that they are for "M16, AR15, ..." then you openly scream to the world that they are "designed and manufactured for a rifle", regardless of whether they are also "designed and manufactured" for a pistol.

The rule is quite simple:
1-If a magazines is "designed and manufactured" for a rifle, then the maximum amount of rounds is 5 (of the round it is designed for), but that maximum doesn't apply if it is rimfire;
2-If a magazines is "designed and manufactured" for a pistol, then the maximum amount of round is 10 (of the round it is designed for).

The rcmp lab can attest as to how many rounds a magazine can contain, they are expert in that field. They have no business even having an opinion on which firearm a magazine is "designed and manufactured" for. That's why the M&P15-22 mags should be allowed 10 rounds max but the butler creek should be allowed any amount.

But in this case it doesn't matter. This magazine (the hexmag) is designed for a rifle, according to the manufacturer, so it is prohibited because the maximum amount of round is 5 while it can contain 10. Unless it is pinned to 5. And that's even before we start with the way the amount of rounds is reduced. The law says it must be permanent, and the plug is everything but permanent.

It's so simple I'm not sure why this is even questionnable. If they had at least marketed it for pistol only and glued the plug inside, then the conversation would be different. It's like they purposefully wanted to make these mags rifle mags.

In the US it doesn't really matter whether it's for a pistol or rifle. I expect that's why they put a picture of an m16 with a stock right on the packaging - they weren't trying to get around our silly laws when this stuff was decided on.

[Suther]

Agreed!

For anyone unsure of the Government of Canada's words/definitions, please use termium:

http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv...t=1#resultrecs

Carbine (fr: Carabine)

"In military language, shorter and lighter model of the general issue service rifle."

"In civilian language, rifle having a shorter than normal length."



That's what the government will refer back to, unless a specific definition is written in a Code of Law.

Wrong. It means pistol. Duhhhh.

[tharkhold]

Wrong. It means pistol. Duhhhh.

I just put in here so we can move on from the "carbine" issue (well, non-issue to me)


I'm all for 10rd+ mags for our stuff, but it's currently a PITA for various reasons...

I bought an actual 5.56 AR pistol (lower registered as a pistol) just in case some law comes in that you have to own a LAR pistol to own LAR mags, or a variant of that. If I can only use these mags in that pistol, guess what, I'm putting a longer barrel, a stock, etc on it to use it as a rifle. (Well if something is put into law for that, I'm guessing the price of LAR15 pistols will go up, so I might sell it )

Mock up of my legal 10rd 'pistolrifle': (christ I think piston 5.56 ar pistols are ridiculous, and funny)

[LeadMonkey]

...

[VinnyQC]

In the US it doesn't really matter whether it's for a pistol or rifle. I expect that's why they put a picture of an m16 with a stock right on the packaging - they weren't trying to get around our silly laws when this stuff was decided on.

I know. That's why the only magazines that will be pistol magazines will always be purposefully built for the canadian market. In this case it's just a normal rifle magazine with an insufficient way to restrict the capacity.

If anyone wants to make some money all they have to do is come up with some kind of external extension to normal LAR15 magazines that has no functionality whatsoever other than making them easier to grip from a mag pouch. Since everyone and their mother seem to have 3d printers nowadays I thought this would be available everywhere by now.