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Thread: Let's Chat about ELR Boomers

  1. #1
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    Let's Chat about ELR Boomers

    Since it was asked in my other post on the DT Boomer, I am starting a post so we can have a conversation about ELR gear and shooting.

    ELR stands for Extreme Long Range but what does that really mean? To me, it is engaging targets at distances where your bullet has gone subsonic. Others will have their own definition but this separates the type of gear, bullets and thinking wrt to long range shooting.

    Share your thoughts, your gear, success and failures. Snow will melt and we can all get out and do some LR and ELR shooting.

    Jerry


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  2. #2
    HELP! I sold my soul to the internet Max Owner's Avatar
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    I have a Cadex in 338 Lapua.

    In theory I can hit 2700 yards with it. I have 2680 access so far and hope to try when I get off nights. Factory ammo for now. Have most components for reloading.

    I have a Kestrel 4500NV that has never been used. Thinking about upgrading to a 5700 with Applied Ballistics and LINK.

    Would it be worth the upgrade, Jerry? Use ISnipe for ballistic program.

    Also, what projectiles do you recommend that you have for such a trip?
    Shooter and Collector (kinda)

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    Aug 30, 2008.
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  3. #3
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    I was playing with the idea of getting a big 338 some day, but now with the new super heavy/ high bc bullets coming out I’m thinking just plain old 7 mm rem mag might be the ticket. Not giving up much performance if the published numbers are to be believed.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Owner View Post
    I have a Cadex in 338 Lapua.

    In theory I can hit 2700 yards with it. I have 2680 access so far and hope to try when I get off nights. Factory ammo for now. Have most components for reloading.

    I have a Kestrel 4500NV that has never been used. Thinking about upgrading to a 5700 with Applied Ballistics and LINK.

    Would it be worth the upgrade, Jerry? Use ISnipe for ballistic program.

    Also, what projectiles do you recommend that you have for such a trip?
    The most consistent, no brainer bullet is the Sierra 300gr MK. It has a long history of flying a very long ways. Not the highest BC or sexiest shape but it does its job with boring regularity. once you establish how your rifle is working and that the set up has the elevation, tracking and other basics to get the job done, you can play with other slugs.

    Hrn is making some very interesting "mid weight" bullets. Again, lower BCs but have seen them fly a good long ways.

    Finally, the most expensive and "sexiest" are the Berger OTMs'. There is no doubt within supersonic flight, they can work very well and flyat much flatter then the other bullets. how this will react going transonic and then subsonic, only you can prove at distance.

    The 10 twist has been the goto for these products for a very long time and it works. Some are going with faster twists to try and get bullets through the transonic range... only real world shooting confirms what will or not work. The concept of overspinning a bullet sounds good until you start doing real world testing and find that increased RPM can cause other issues in flight.

    So, it is a compromise... personally, I choose a "boring" bullet with dead reliable flight path. I can steer if the bullet does what I expect. Highs, Lows or WTFs serve no purpose in ELR shooting and many bullet designs today are optimised for super sonic flight.

    I have no experience with the monolithic lathe turned bullets at this time.

    My suggestion is tune the load for the lowest vertical, most reliable accuracy at 600yds... confirm at 1000yds... work out to as far as you want to go. If things are working as planned 1500yds will be a chip shot... 1 mile just more windage. Things can start to get "odd" around 2000yds if the bullet is having a hard time making up its mind.

    Figure out where the bullets will go 1700fps, 1300fps and 1000fps... shoot at and 200yds beyond each speed. The bullet either will or will not.

    FYI, I took my FTR rig with the itty bitty 308 to 1450yds and it hammered the rocks just fine. I will be pushing to 1 mile this summer... not sure if I have enough elevation but fun to play.

    Jerry


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  5. #5
    HELP! I sold my soul to the internet Max Owner's Avatar
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    Thanx Jerry.

    Sean.
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    Aug 30, 2008.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinlead View Post
    I was playing with the idea of getting a big 338 some day, but now with the new super heavy/ high bc bullets coming out I’m thinking just plain old 7 mm rem mag might be the ticket. Not giving up much performance if the published numbers are to be believed.
    I know shooters who have taken the 6BR to 1 mile for S&G's. I have pushed the 223 and 80gr Amax to 1 mile with surprising accuracy in very calm air.

    The good ole Mausers, Swedes, Enfields and Springfields were all proven to volley fire out to 2000yds just fine using slugs of their day.

    The highest BC designs today have really helped shooters hit much better within the supersonic velocity distances but many of these designs do not like going subsonic. Some really don't like going transonic.... so the bullet you may need for ELR shooting may not be the latest greatest.

    For true ELR stuff, initial velocity plays a lesser role then launching that bullet perfectly and consistently. No doubt that slower means more elevation way out there but that is a mechanical thing with solid solutions today. So the goal is to strive for sub MOA accuracy at 1000yds consistently... from there it is just a matter of more up, more drift... and hopefully, stable transistion to subsonic flight.

    I am not saying let's all shoot 22LR to 2 miles (300m is a hoot) but shooters need to keep things in perspective of the actual distance goals. 2 mile and beyond will need big heavy slugs going at a decent clip... but that same combo might be a bit overkill for those looking for solid 1 mile shots.

    So defining what ELR means to you matters... in both gear and in $$$

    Decide if you want to shoot LR (targets within supersonic flight) or ELR (targets at subsonic flight)

    Jerry


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  7. #7
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    Jerry, do you shoot any of the real big calibers?

    My curiosity had me looking at projectiles the other night, but there doesn't seem to be a wide variety out there. Most of the big name manufacturers I look to for 30 cal, etc, don't seem to make anything bigger than a 338! The 50 cal A-Max is one exception, but the only 408 and 416 options I found are from small specialty shops and many don't seem to post BCs. What do these big boomer guys shoot out of their 416 Barrett's, etc?

  8. #8
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    Most will be using lathe turned solids. Cutting Edge Ballistics is usually what is posted as the bullets being launched.

    375cal has Sierra... Berger is rumored to be working on a 375cal.

    BC is very important but so is transonic/subsonic flight.

    Jerry


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    Do the Cutting Edge Ballistics projectiles handle going transonic well? I've read about the factory 408CT loads and the Burger 30 cal 185 Juggernauts that are designed to handle the transition, but those are the only ones I've heard of that are designed for that purpose.

    Even then, you'd have to get the barrel twist and muzzle velocity just right so the projectile tracks well enough that it's not lopsided when it goes through that transonic barrier, right? <- that's just speculation based on a sciencey background.

    Are the Cutting Edge Ballistics, or similar, available in Canada?

  10. #10
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    The only way to confirm any bullets flight is to shoot them at distance. There are a number of subtle changes that a barrel can impart on a bullet which can affect its flight, like twist and engraving... but in general, just push any slug to 1600fps, 1300fps, and 1000fps. The bullet either will or will not. There are many many bullets that will go subsonic just fine.

    I would leave it to the ELR shooters who are pushing the big bullets out beyond 3000yds to report what is working. There are new bullets and designs being tested so this is a very fluid subject.

    loaded ammo runout is completely irrelevant after the first 200yds. A bullet that doesn't stop its swerve will never be useful to any precision shooter. Anyone interested in this type of shooting is not going to have seated bullet runout high enough to matter.

    So some of what you are worrying about simply aren't part of the equation. Supersonic stability is established very early in a bullet flight... otherwise, you will lousy accuracy and that option is dumped.

    Transonic and subsonic stability is bullet related ... it either will or will not. This is not something the shooter can really control. A poor design will get dumped for a better shape.

    Jerry


    Check out my Facebook page... Mystic Precision Inc

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