Just when you thought the new gun bill was our greatest threat.......

[bobbynewmark]

www.princeton.edu/~rmizzo/firingrange.htm

Are you suggesting this is a comprehensive study?? I don't think so. It says at the top of the page "This website was created by Robin Izzo Scott in support of a term paper" So I am not sure what merit an undergrad term paper project has (as a product of left wing pre and post secondary education at that!!)

[alltieear]

liberal's propaganda and protests hurt the IQ of the younger generation. Can we ban them too?

[VinnyQC]

I'm first to say that lead isn't environmentally friendly, and I'm all in favor of using solid copper bullets for hunting rounds and FMJ for plinking, but lead is not the devil some would like us to believe. All the argument in favor or removing lead completely vanish into thin air when they get into the real world:

1-Zinc and frangible ammos for handguns have very low density. A 90grn zinc bullet has roughly the shape of a 147grn lead FMJ. You would need almost 1400fps to reach minor power factor with that kind of bullet, which just isn't possible with commercial ammos, and barely at all when reloading. The zinc bullets are also more prone to ricochet, so they can't be used at most indoor range with steel backstops. And finally, the zinc fouling in barrels is really, but I mean REALLY hard to get rid of. It's a bad solution for the average 9mm handgun, and a non-existing one for most other handgun calibres.

2-Steel would be a "good" replacement, but they're not allowed at indoor ranges due to ricochet.

3-Solid metal hunting ammos like the barnes TTSX are fine, I use them personnaly, but they have their downsides too. First, the best solid metal bullets will NEVER have the accuracy of the best lead bullets, so they're off the table for long range competition. Second, they're really long for a given weight, so for some calibres (most WSM comes to mind), they're really not ideal. Then they cost quite a bit. The cost isn't that big a problem for hunting ammos, it's not like paying an extra dollars make a difference for a 5000$ hunting trip, but for 3-gun or cqb competition, where you can shoot hundreds of times in a day, the cost quickly becomes prohibitive. At about 1$/piece, a typical TTSX 308 bullet is 4 times the price of a campro FMJ. Roughly the same ratio for 223.

4-The current price for zinc, frangible and solid copper ammos is not too high because the demand isn't too high, but good luck trying to feed the whole market with those ammos. The price of components will skyrocket immediately.

If someone has the bright idea of banning the sale of lead ammos or bullets, I'm ordering enough campro, berrys and others to last my lifetime. Not sure where I'm gonna stack all that stuff but I'll find a way.

[cody c]

Let me do some math out loud:

They think approximately 2 million people hunt or use guns in a year in Canada, and 5100 tonnes is 11,243,600 pounds:

Works out to an average of 5.6218 pounds of lead (not copper lead and or brass, just lead) per person per year, I certainly don't shoot close to that.

I know there are a few who put a lot of lead downrange as active shooters, but I think it's pretty safe to call that statistic skewed, unless I've missed something with that math, if so please let me know.

[iloveak47]

compared to overall hunting or sport shooting expenditures, munition costs is minimal

Lol.

[drift1122]

I didn't quite find what I was looking for but I felt that this was a good source of info and a potentially unbiased one. Do you have info that will back your stance, I'd be willing to read it.

Are you suggesting this is a comprehensive study?? I don't think so. It says at the top of the page "This website was created by Robin Izzo Scott in support of a term paper" So I am not sure what merit an undergrad term paper project has (as a product of left wing pre and post secondary education at that!!)

[Cameron SS]

The industry would look good if it switched voluntarily. Im all for reducing lead. I don't want lead in my wild meat. I understand that can be viewed as another veiled attack on shooting sports/hunting though.

There is a legitimate debate to be had about reducing lead use in hunting applications. As for shooting ranges, the practices necessary for managing lead ammunition are there, but are not being enforced. Frankly I am surprised we have gotten away with it for as long as we have.

Stop using lead ammo... it's bad for the environment. Meanwhile they fully ban steel core ammo at ranges (Mostly already done) and boom all your restricted's are now paperweights.

Please tell me which government agency has banned steel core ammo? Some ranges ban steel core ammo, but that is usually because shooting steel core ammo on bullet traps designed for lead ammo is bad for the equipment.

The banning of lead has little to no relation to the environment.

5200 tonnes into the environment annually? BS. I bet 5100 tonnes of it is captured in range backstops.

Yes, it is, and if that lead was being removed from the bullet traps, it wouldn't be a concern. But when it is being allowed to accumulate with no management or mitigation, it does stay in the backstops.

Studies done on some ranges in Europe that have been around for 100 years found that wild flowers growing several kilometers away from the range contained sufficient levels of lead to be unfit for human consumption. Believe me, if Health Canada were to start testing crops being grown near shooting ranges for lead we would be lucky to have any ranges at all.

I don't support a lead ammunition ban, but I also don't support shooting ranges being allowed to pollute the environment either. Lead is waste. If you pick up your garbage its no big deal. If you just leave it lying there for a century, it is going to migrate and cause problems.

We can remain ignorant and hostile to the problem, and we can guarantee that the liberal "I love banning things" government will ram a lead ban down our throat.

We can do better, but we will need to be part of the solution. The single worst thing that we did as a community was refuse to participate in the study that was conducted.

[MD]

I wouldn't mind transitioning to copper if they grandfathered existing ammunition in our possession and just quit selling lead-based products from a certain date forward.

[rikkards]

I will just pull the reverse the hunters do when it is anything about my AR, meh I don't hunt why should I care?

(I do care but had to make the point)

[philhut]

How about we make a "Safe space " town or province for them to live in with high walls and GPS tracking for their populatiom. The rest of us can live in the "Free space"