Possibility of a Bolt-action 7.62x25 SBR?

[rifleman762]

The Tok 7.62x25 is a great round for a small carbine!!! So much of that powder in those military rounds gets burnt in the air I have to wonder that kind of FPS we’d see out of a 18.6” bolt gun. It would make a great varmint round and great for kids to shoot once they’re ready to move up from .22.

I’ve personally wanted one for years but every time one of these threads starts, it gets derailed fast with requests for everything else like different cals, semi-autos ect.

Truthfully, I don’t think there’s a big business case for them. They’d have to cost $600-$700 and be made by savage. If the sales of the 7.62x39 bolt guns are any indication I’d expect most dealers to keep away from this idea.

I can still dream though.

We may be better off with a thread on what action is best to make our own custom ones...

What if we come up with an easy to manufacture action that people can use to make their own? There's not much point in using a full sized rifle action. Bolt handle acting as a single rear locking lug? According to my Bolt Thrust and Hoop Stress spreadsheet :-) the 7.62x25 at 36,259 psi would have a worst case bolt thrust of about 4000 lbs during a case head separation. A single 0.40x0.40" lug on a 0.50" bolt body made of 92 ksi steel would yield at 17000 lbs bolt thrust. Normal safety margin on commercial actions is around 4x so that works out. With a 0.125 action thickness where the lug is bearing on it would give 0.050 sq-in contact area compared to an AR15 at 0.069" so it should be ok for a lower pressure cartridge like this. Hoop stress on a barrel with 5/8-20 tenon thread would be 107 ksi - similar to a 62,000 psi 0.473" case head cartridge in a full sized bolt action. At this size it would need to be made of centerfire rifle materials: a proper 4140 or 416 steel barrel and action. 4140 at 32 HRC hardness is 135-ish ksi yield. This action could be as small as a rimfire: 3/4" to 1" OD on the action. Should be able to make it fit on a Savage MKii footprint!

(For those who are not familiar with yield strengths of different steels, here are a few comparisons: Mild steel 36,000 psi or 36 ksi, Grade 5 bolt 92 ksi, Grade 8 bolt 130 ksi)

I think a Howa 1500 Mini in 223 would be your best bet if you wanted to start with a commercial action. A magwell adapter for TT33 magazines should be doable in the space available. I don't have metric change gears for my lathe, though. The Howa threads are metric - M26-1.5 I think. And the Howa Mini isn't exactly a cheap starting point but it is a good gun! Then if you get tired of 7.62x25 just put all the 223 parts back on.

[Artvark]

Sounds like a great idea

[pure.black.xiii]

A simple bolt gun with irons and a red dot in 7.62x25 would be amazing!!! Taking TT-33 mags would be ideal

[floriosean1]

bolt gun is a cool idea, but does anyone remember the ruger charger? based off the 10/22 action. the idea was to stick a little bi-pod and red dot on it and plink cans at close distance. I think a similar platform for the 7.62x25 would do well based on the cheap availability of the ammo.

either way i would be in, this is a great round with lots of unused potential

[Robert Nicholson]

count me in!

[jiffx2781]

...

[johnmbrowning]

Bullpup semi auto using tokarev mags!!!!

[tiriaq]

Bolt Action 7.62x25 SBR

Pros:
Many 7.62x25 rounds were manufactured to shoot out of Sub-guns, so a 8-10 in barrel on a Bolt gun could still take full advantage of the round itself.
OAL could be 26.5in (good gun to toss in your truck, or use as a varminter, could definitely walk through the bush with it).
Mag capacity could be quite high as they'd be designed for a bolt action (or could use existing Tok or P762 mags).
Very easily cleaned if you used Surplus through it (and thus ammo could be real cheap)
Not scary looking.

Cons:
Could make Bolt action precision rifle purists really mad???


I'd imagine it could be relatively simple to design (wood stock, maybe a modified short action similar to a CZ 527) though I couldn't imagine the production costs.

Comments?

How about starting with a Savage 340 in .222? Open bolt face slightly. Rebarrel using barrel nut system. Magazine adapter for TT magazines.

[TheIHGuy]

I'm working on building a prototype, possibly doing a production run in the future if the price point can be brought down.

[alberta tactical rifle]

Bolt Action 7.62x25 SBR

Pros:
Many 7.62x25 rounds were manufactured to shoot out of Sub-guns, so a 8-10 in barrel on a Bolt gun could still take full advantage of the round itself.
OAL could be 26.5in (good gun to toss in your truck, or use as a varminter, could definitely walk through the bush with it).
Mag capacity could be quite high as they'd be designed for a bolt action (or could use existing Tok or P762 mags).
Very easily cleaned if you used Surplus through it (and thus ammo could be real cheap)
Not scary looking.

Cons:
Could make Bolt action precision rifle purists really mad???


I'd imagine it could be relatively simple to design (wood stock, maybe a modified short action similar to a CZ 527) though I couldn't imagine the production costs.

Comments?

A few issues I see.
1st we are balls to the walls already with Modern Sporter manufacturing, not to mention all of the other products we manufacture that are getting back burner'ed to try and get the Sporter out in the timeframes we have committed to.

2nd In this economy with the current regimes both local and federal I am just not going to gamble hundreds of thousands of dollars to expand our operation until we KNOW that the regime is not going to kill the industry as the current one seems hellbent on.

3rd The R&D, writing or programs, making of fixtures is not nickles and dimes. To even bother looking further into this there would have to be a significant number sales potential, as in several hundred not just several.

4th To do something like this will result in fairly expensive rifles. If guys are figuring under $1000.00 or even under $2000.00, not a chance. We are not in China we are in Alberta, which for the moment is still part of Canada.

5th We don't do wood at all, that is a totally different niche, so stocks would need to be outsourced and I suspect any stock maker that is not doing custom 1 offs would require a minimum order in the hundreds to even bother to quote on costs. Laminated wood would be the least expensive, but it all boils down to numbers.

Like all business decisions a business has to look at what the actual sales potential might be and weigh this to determine if the upfront investment is worth the risk.