Heckler & Koch fights for survival

[r34skyline]

When an american company can put a quality AR into the hands of LE, but HK can't do it for less than 10K..... if it's a race to the bottom, it's driving the gold plated BMW off a cliff.

When an american AR can perform on par with the hk offerings i will take this statement more seriously. Ask for the 10k was that a reference ir are we just making up numbets?

[sprint]

When an american AR can perform on par with the hk offerings i will take this statement more seriously. Ask for the 10k was that a reference ir are we just making up numbets?

Many units who can choose what they want, choose other than H&K.

It quite simply isn't the high water mark collectors make it out to be. I debated even posting this (and FWIW will probably wind up regretting it anyway). But the notion that these guns are worth the inflated numbers going behind them for anything but collector rarity (in this Country) is comical.

$12,000 G36-whatevers.

Good God. Talk about self-inflicted wounds...

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...their-weapons/

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...er-tiger-33366

[r34skyline]

Many units who can choose what they want, choose other than H&K.

It quite simply isn't the high water mark collectors make it out to be. I debated even posting this (and FWIW will probably wind up regretting it anyway). But the notion that these guns are worth the inflated numbers going behind them for anything but collector rarity (in this Country) is comical.

$12,000 G36-whatevers.

Good God. Talk about self-inflicted wounds...

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...their-weapons/

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...er-tiger-33366

You realize thats what we pay not what agencies pay right? Civvie side yes its the collector side of the house that inflates the value of harder to come by rifles such as the g36. That particular rifle is technically cheaper to make than the m4 or the hk416 for that matter and is marketed as such.

As far as the "8%" have faith in their rifle i guess most of that small percentage must have gotten sent to africa because overall the germans seemed fairly pleased with their service weapons performance there.

As for further life of the g36 the media reports probably killed any future g36 sales sadly but it is what it is.

P.s. the g36 debacle has been long settled as faulty doctrine and ammunition so i suggest you get with the times.

[Dietz]

When an american AR can perform on par with the hk offerings i will take this statement more seriously.

LMAO you're kidding right?

[greentips]

I don't know why people are so worked up on an article that is written on pieces of pieces of information cobbled together from other places.

Read the financial statements of HK - it is on the internet. They did more sales in the first QTR of 2019 than 2018. Their problem is higher COS than the same QTR of last year, and hence the management is talking about increasing efficiency. Workers realized they got paid too much and these bonuses are driving up costs, hence they did what they did. Sales are great, it is cost control.

And like Colt USA, they are burdened by a huge 230 million Euro liability on their balance sheet from years ago , so they spend about 8 million EURO a year on interest payment IIRC.

So yeah, like many companies sometime you need cash to run the company due to timing issue of inflow and outflow, hence the shareholders provide some bridge loans. No big deal.

Is HK GOING DOWN, HELL NO. They have MG4 and MG5, the French contract, M110A1, and potentially more M27 and Norwegian, and then the German Military. There are many smaller German Police contracts. As long as they keep cost under control and the revenue at a certain level, they will service the debt and churn out a small profit. Occasionally, they will lose money, and they will always go through this small profit/small loss cycle as long as that 230 million debt needs to be serviced

The relationship between American firearms industry and HK is like CNN and Trump, it is like they can't wait to dance on his grave fast enough.

[mildot]

When an american company can put a quality AR into the hands of LE, but HK can't do it for less than 10K..... if it's a race to the bottom, it's driving the gold plated BMW off a cliff.

There business is driven by LE and MIL sales, which are very competitive with companies like Colt Canada. The real problem is with parts and getting rifles from Germany. There are several agencies that use the 416 and have switched not because of performance but because of parts, service , and in that area HK can, and should do better.

With alot of police agencies considering suppressors for training the HK 416 delivers, without the extra maintenance of a DI rifle.

This thread has alot of "anger" towards HK simply because they don't offer all there firearms to the civilian market, which is disappointing to say the least. The MR platforms kinda put that in the rear view.

I hope this thread doesn't turn into a piston vs DI debacle, regardless of what platform you use, Colt Canada and HK have the best barrels out there, and at the end of the day, that makes all the difference.

[AOWM]

Let them die. They dug their own grave.

They most certainly did.

I won’t miss them, but then I judge my firearms based on physical performance and HK could not price their rifles competitively.
Not saying it’s not a quality product just that for the money you could always get higher quality and that for the same money or less it’s not particularly difficult to find something just as reliable and more accurate.

Perhaps they lost sight of where the money was to be made.
I often got the impression that they were a government contracted publicity firm first and a firearms manufacturer as a secondary pursuit.

Harsh words perhaps, but it’s all been said before and should have been heeded the first time.

[Stoner99]

You realize thats what we pay not what agencies pay right? Civvie side yes its the collector side of the house that inflates the value of harder to come by rifles such as the g36. That particular rifle is technically cheaper to make than the m4 or the hk416 for that matter and is marketed as such.

As far as the "8%" have faith in their rifle i guess most of that small percentage must have gotten sent to africa because overall the germans seemed fairly pleased with their service weapons performance there.

As for further life of the g36 the media reports probably killed any future g36 sales sadly but it is what it is.

P.s. the g36 debacle has been long settled as faulty doctrine and ammunition so i suggest you get with the times.

To also add to that the G36 supposed problems started in the mid 2000’s with a hit piece article by a leftest news paper. Then “Der spiegle” took up the commie crusade of shutting down HK with false information or disinformation rather. The Far left which dominates Germany has had its eye on HK for years and they never forgot HK support of 2A and making civilian G3 to accommodate the US market. Also keep in mind post war Germany constitution and weapon laws were basically written by allied nations like USA after the war. In other words they created this whole thing themselves which ironic listening to Americans complain about HK. Lol

As for cost being too much. I just laugh at the stupid some of you guys are spouting. You guys are just so wrong on every level, from economics , cost of manufacturing. Import/export, Currency exchange and of course regurgitating the usual stupid that comes from USA’s YouTube/IG/Twitter personality pushing there best friends products. Lol.

Also much of this is generated from people in the US that are completely unaware of there own importation laws they have that basically ban HK and other foreign/European companies from selling there stuff in the US market. USA manufactures in the 80’s and early 90’s supported this ban because they wanted there market protected or monopolization to continue. This clearly backfired.

Remember to state it again,HK made civilian G3’s for the US market in particular & supported 2A and civilian ownership for decades. They also lunched the SL8 & USC just get something out there , and you know they were not making money on that really. That is where firearms laws were headed pre 911. As for companies like HK, Ruger,Colt,Diemaco(now Colt Canada) etc the Antis we’re everywhere in these companies, what’s happening now is the tide has started to shift. These companies were or are still owned by leftest owners for years or owners that had the mindset of civilian disarmament on one level or another. People know with Data and information availability on the internet that civil disarmament is a bad idea, which can be proven by government studies or at least we can argue it back now. The powers that be don’t have total monopolization over media or thought control. The wind was blowing that way for years especially pre-2000s on every ABC broadcasting network, News, Print Media etc. most of you guys weren’t even around to see how lopsided the fight was.


As for companies like Sig, they are a great company but I find with there new owner they are moving to cutting cost and going for simply what makes the most money. This is the consumers or mentality in the west. I call it the “Walmart mentality” we are aiming for mediocrity as the place of excellence.

As for this article it got one thing very correct and it was at the:


(Should H&K lose out on the German G36 replacement contract, this could spell the end for the 71 year-old German small arms producer, and a potentially new beginning for a restructured company in its place.)


Anyways. Sorry for rant and bad Grammar etc. My iPhone is tough to type this on.

[Alvin1095]

Let them die. They dug their own grave.

You spoke my word

[Stoner99]

They most certainly did.

I won’t miss them, but then I judge my firearms based on physical performance and HK could not price their rifles competitively.
Not saying it’s not a quality product just that for the money you could always get higher quality and that for the same money or less it’s not particularly difficult to find something just as reliable and more accurate.

Perhaps they lost sight of where the money was to be made.
I often got the impression that they were a government contracted publicity firm first and a firearms manufacturer as a secondary pursuit.

Harsh words perhaps, but it’s all been said before and should have been heeded the first time.

By all means explain where they Lost sight ? Lol