.458 Socom 5/10rd Magazines

[halv18]

I’m going to follow this thread for anyone who posts a link to the RCMP website stating something specific to these mags...otherwise this seems to follow the same idea as the LAR15 mags in my mind. If anyone has seen the adapters they make for 10/22s to use Remington mags, I’d be more afraid of that being illegal. Appreciate wolverine bringing these in and we’ll see what happens, only in for $120 right now.

[DILLIGAF]

No one cares what those douche nozzles think at the lab. So just stop making arguments about it FFS

[scourge18a]

You are arguing with the wrong person, the RCMP interpretation is written in the frt

Can you please post what the interpretation is?
People can then make up their own minds

[PinaKaleada]

You are arguing with the wrong person, the RCMP interpretation is written in the frt, if you think your argument holds water, bring it to their attention. My post is simply telling you how this will play out if you are ever stopped. Do I agree, no, But I follow the legal comments as written because I do not have enough money to go against the RCMP as they are the only entity that can decide firearm legalities in this country and are backed 100% by our current government as such.

The RRA pistol was never marketed to take stanag pattern magazines. The dimensions of the RRA pistol magazine do not fit the stanag template.

458 socom rifles were developed from the ground up to be used on a std M4 lower with un modified usgi/stanag magazines, very different and share no commonality

It's not about RRA "marketed" or not, or else I'd tell you these 458 socom magazines are "marketed" for 458 socom and we have our verdict.

The RRA lower is an AR15 lower designed to take any stanag magazines. So RCMP should instead rule:

RRA pistol magazines are prohib since they were designed for the RRA pistol, which was designed to take stanag magazines. 5 x 556 rule applies.

to be consistent with:

458 Socom magazines are prohib since they were designed for the 458 Rounds, which was designed to fit stanag magazines. 5 x 556 rule applies.

My point is that RCMP's determination of pistol magazines was a go because they were "designed" for the RRA pistols. Therefore when these have the markings "FOR RRA PISTOL. 10 ROUND CAPACITY", it is signalling the exact assessment valid for these 458 Socom Magazines. Which is, magazine capacity depends on the type of rounds it was designed to hold. Not the other way around.

Looking at the feed lips, it's even more apparent that they were designed and created this way for 458 Socom, since the finish was applied after the feed lips were cut to this length and bent upwards. The cutting of the feed lips require a stand alone die, which means that it likely never existed as 556 feed lip ever, and was made solely for 458 Socom, as per Wolverine's comment above. This satisfies as a proof that these were designed as stand alone 458, as supposed to be modified/adapted from 556 to become 458.

[Ryang5177]

ordered 2. if somehow they do crackdown on them i can CCFR legal defense for a reason.

[DILLIGAF]

ordered 2. if somehow they do crackdown on them i can CCFR legal defense for a reason.

Hahahha legal defense dosent cover that... Read the fine print. If the RCMP deams these prohibited they wont lift a finger to defend you.

[Brian46]

Can you please post what the interpretation is?
People can then make up their own minds

Here it is for the 50beo, 458 is the same issue

The "Canadian Law Comments" section says for FRT #121656.

In the case of AR platform rifles chambered for the 50 Beowulf calibre, the magazine is adapted from the original 5.56x45 NATO version of the magazine but the ability of the magazine to perform as originally designed has not been compromised by the adaption. As a result such magazines are prohibited if they contain more than five 5.56x45 NATO cartridges. The magazines are in effect dual calibre magazines and are prohibited if they exceed five shots capacity of either calibre. An AR platform magazine limited to no more than five 5.56x45 NATO (223 Remington) cartridges will hold no more than two 50 Beowulf cartridges.

Here is the RCMP's email to a retailer/sponsor

Originally Posted by Armtac
Being the dealer with Alexander Arms, we were originally going to manufacturer the polymer version of the .50 Beowulf mags in Korea completely with a new mold 2 years ago. We have one currently sitting with RCMP for inspection, however, numerous email with RCMP did mentioned that they will not likely going to approve any .50 Beowulf magazine.

Here is a portion of the communication I have with RCMP

"Across the spectrum of numerous inspections, RCMP-SFSS has not seen a single 50 Beowulf magazine or a single 458 Socom Calibre magazine for the AR-15 platform that is not prohibited. This is because the magazine designs we have seen have been adapted from the AR-15/M16 5.56 x 45 mm design to accommodate the 458 Socom & 50 Beowulf calibre cartridge but have never lost the 5.56 mm design features.

I am not here to argue, I am here to tell people what SFSS told me.

It really doesn't make any sense to me either, but a lot of stuffs in life doesn't make any sense as well.

[Brian46]

It's not about RRA "marketed" or not, or else I'd tell you these 458 socom magazines are "marketed" for 458 socom and we have our verdict.

The RRA lower is an AR15 lower designed to take any stanag magazines. So RCMP should instead rule:

RRA pistol magazines are prohib since they were designed for the RRA pistol, which was designed to take stanag magazines. 5 x 556 rule applies.

to be consistent with:

458 Socom magazines are prohib since they were designed for the 458 Rounds, which was designed to fit stanag magazines. 5 x 556 rule applies.

My point is that RCMP's determination of pistol magazines was a go because they were "designed" for the RRA pistols. Therefore when these have the markings "FOR RRA PISTOL. 10 ROUND CAPACITY", it is signalling the exact assessment valid for these 458 Socom Magazines. Which is, magazine capacity depends on the type of rounds it was designed to hold. Not the other way around.

Looking at the feed lips, it's even more apparent that they were designed and created this way for 458 Socom, since the finish was applied after the feed lips were cut to this length and bent upwards. The cutting of the feed lips require a stand alone die, which means that it likely never existed as 556 feed lip ever, and was made solely for 458 Socom, as per Wolverine's comment above. This satisfies as a proof that these were designed as stand alone 458, as supposed to be modified/adapted from 556 to become 458.

You are failing to grasp the reality of the situation.

You would have a case if E lander had developed the 458socom rifle and magazines like RRA did with the pistol and their magazines.

Because the developer of the 458 designed it to use a usgi/stanag pattern magazine and RRA did not build their rifle to use anything but their proprietary magazine (although some other existing magazines fit and interchange) that is the issue.

There is no such thing as a proprietary 458 magazine because the developer of the rifle never produced one for it, they are all then adaptations of usgi/stanag magazines

[PinaKaleada]

You are failing to grasp the reality of the situation.

You would have a case if E lander had developed the 458socom rifle and magazines like RRA did with the pistol and their magazines.

Because the developer of the 458 designed it to use a usgi/stanag pattern magazine and RRA did not build their rifle to use anything but their proprietary magazine (although some other existing magazines fit and interchange) that is the issue.

There is no such thing as a proprietary 458 magazine because the developer of the rifle never produced one for it, they are all then adaptations of usgi/stanag magazines

RRA didn't design the lower, it's an AR15 lower, and AR15 lowers uses stanag magazines.... At most they "marketed" it as a pistol, but it's an AR15 lower



Dude thats a forged AR15 lower, designed to use stanag magazines. So why is RRA pistol mags legal if this RRA pistol was only "adapted" to take pistol magazines? This RRA lower is a "dual use" lower, so 5 x 556 rules should apply.

[Brian46]

RRA didn't design the lower, it's an AR15 lower, and AR15 lowers uses stanag magazines.... At most they "marketed" it as a pistol, but it's an AR15 lower dude...

So you posted a picture of a RRA pistol only to claim RRA didn't produce the lower? Did they produce the magazines for the pistol they developed or are you going to say they are std usgi/stanag too?