.458 Socom 5/10rd Magazines

[Brian46]

That’s exactly what an uninformed officer would do. This actually proves nothing as far as what the legislation says. Bad situation? Yes. Does it mean we’re going to interpret laws case by case, based on the interaction with the officers? You know that’s not how laws work.

So what is your suggestion then, That doesn't land me with a criminal charge and a court date?

Are you really suggesting that a front line officer has dreamed up looking for something like this rather than internal bulletins distributed to the officers tasked with checking firearms at checkpoints set up by conservation officers during hunting season?

I can't be the only one who gets stopped, interested in hearing other peoples hunting interactions with conservation officers and rcmp while carrying their big bore rifles, or is everyone else too scared to be out on public land?

[PinaKaleada]

So what is your suggestion then, That doesn't land me with a criminal charge and a court date?

Are you really suggesting that a front line officer has dreamed up looking for something like this rather than internal bulletins distributed to the officers tasked with checking firearms at checkpoints set up by conservation officers during hunting season?

I can't be the only one who gets stopped, interested in hearing other peoples hunting interactions with conservation officers and rcmp while carrying their big bore rifles, or is everyone else too scared to be out on public land?

Your question is “How do I stay out of legal hassle?” While it’s a very real concern, it’s not what we are talking about.

The “legality” is the focus of discussion here, not the “hassle”, and that’s step #1. And every action one takes must always first refer to “legality” and this discussion aims to first clear that up.

So from the sound of it, you agree that the “dual use” term contradicts the existing 9mm/40s&w ruling? Next step is determining which one of 9mm/40s&w or “dual use” term is correct, since it’s a contradiction.

[VinnyQC]

False? Are you saying I am lying about having the capacity of my own Beowulf magazines checked during hunting season in my province.

If they were not pinned to 2 round capacity when they checked, I can assure you things would have gone very differently

So? Just because that particular cop was wrong doesn't mean you are right. There were also a few guys who got arrested because they had pistol magazines for their rifle AR15. Guess what? The cops had to give them back their magazines, because they are legal.

At the end of the day, cops don't know the laws very well. Especially guns laws, because they're a mess. The only way to really make sure you won't get arrested and accused of something that isn't even a crime is to not own any firearm or accessory. And even then, there's also that guy in BC who got arrested because he had one of those taser-baton. Same story: cops knows squat, arrest the guy, try to keep the baton in exchange for not laying charges, guy doesn't play ball, prosecutor doesn't lay charges and guy gets his baton back. This is how it always end: prosecutors don't go forward with charges they know for a fact they can't get a conviction (the official criteria is "large confidence to obtain a conviction").

You argument is still circular: magz are prohibited because the cops say it's a crime, and the cops say it's a crime because the magz are prohibited. But the reality is that the criminal code is what decides what is a criminal offence and what isn't.

[Brian46]

Your question is “How do I stay out of legal hassle?” While it’s a very real concern, it’s not what we are talking about.

The “legality” is the focus of discussion here, not the “hassle”, and that’s step #1. And every action one takes must always first refer to “legality” and this discussion aims to first clear that up.

So from the sound of it, you agree that the “dual use” term contradicts the existing 9mm/40s&w ruling? Next step is determining which one of 9mm/40s&w or “dual use” term is correct, since it’s a contradiction.

This discussion clears nothing up, there is at least one case where an individual was arrested, charged, firearms seized, revoked firearms license, spent thousands on lawyers and in the end plead guilty to numerous other charges seeming from the same incident and police still kept the magazines as prohibited devices as part of the deal. The other option would have been roll the dice, go to trial and spend tens of thousands more.

This was for Beowulf magazines, how do you know these will not get you in a similar situation?

[Kinthelt]

Is the horse dead yet?

[PinaKaleada]

This discussion clears nothing up, there is at least one case where an individual was arrested, charged, firearms seized, revoked firearms license, spent thousands on lawyers and in the end plead guilty to numerous other charges seeming from the same incident and police still kept the magazines as prohibited devices as part of the deal. The other option would have been roll the dice, go to trial and spend tens of thousands more.

This was for Beowulf magazines, how do you know these will not get you in a similar situation?

You’re just willingly ignoring the difference between plea deal and court rulings. Especially that we’ve been discussing the letter of law. You know it.

Plea = self admit. I’ll admit 9mm in 40s&w is prohib, doesn’t mean it is.

Court ruling = case tested by judge in court in regards to letter of law

[Brian46]

You’re just willingly ignoring the difference between plea deal and court rulings. Especially that we’ve been discussing the letter of law.

Plea = self admit
Court ruling = case tested by judge in court in regards to letter of law

So where do you take your 5 round 458 and 50 Beowulf mags?

How many times have you interacted with conservation officers or police with them? I go through a checkpoint at the min once a year with my 50 Beowulf, it seems I hunt the same week they run their blitz on a certain highway every year.

Because I choose not to be forced into a situation where I have to spend a unknown amount of money and time fighting an interpretation in court all the while suffering a firearms ban that doesn't allow me to even hunt, you think I am ignoring the difference?

Have you ever been forced to prove your innocence in a court of law? I have, it is very costly and the restrictions put on you while charged and awaiting trial can ruin you financially, which quite often is the intention so you can not afford a decent lawyer.

[PinaKaleada]

^I get you. But we’re talking about the contradiction of 9mm/40S&W and “dual use” and your legal hassle above just doesn’t address the actual legalities.

If you got in front of the judge and he ruled on the 50 Beowulf’s, please do tell. Otherwise your experience doesn’t prove the legalities. You should instead preach the “legal hassle” and not “prohibited device” claim.

[Brian46]

^I get you. But we’re talking about the contradiction of 9mm/40S&W and “dual use” and your legal hassle above just doesn’t address the actual legalities of this

Why do you keep using a non legal bulletin in regards to pistols only and think you can apply it as a blanket, legally to every type of firearm? The contradiction of one non legal document vs another is the same as you saying the frt legal comments are not law. The fact that either of these documents exist while not legal is the problem. If either scenario goes to court, your guess is as good as mine as to who wins, but with our current government it is likely to not go your way

You still have not answered my question. If you not confident enough with what you are asserting is legal to put it in to practice out in the open, why are we having this discussion? Anyone who purposely limits the use of these magazines as to not have an interaction with law enforcement is obviously not sure of their own legal assertion they portray online or at the local gun store.

I am going to assume you have never been stopped and had your big bore rifle checked by some form of law enforcement by your refusal to answer the question.

[Brian46]

Do you remember your reply to this? For some reason you have been deleting.....

It's not a matter of siding with anyone, I simply don't have an unlimited budget to risk arrest, charges and my livelihood fighting the RCMP labs opinion which is backed by our current government 100%.

If you have the money to fight them, it shouldn't be that hard to go out on crown land and do a few mag dumps this summer within earshot of some campers to get the RCMP on scene to look at your magazines.

I use my big bore rifles on public land, I have been stopped and had to stop at game checks and never had an issue because the capacity is limited as per the non legal bulletin the rcmp has put in the frt. I practice what I preach, do you?

If you restrict your usage to private land, gun clubs and shooting ranges to avoid contact with law enforcement or be seen by the public, how can you portray your position as being perfectly legal when untested?