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Thread: Action: Gun Ban is a Western Alienation Issue

  1. #81
    CGN frequent flyer ColinD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangebob View Post
    If the prairies weren't in Canada, he'd have a majority. Prairies are 28 seats. 338 - 28 = 310. Half of 310 is 155. They got 157 seats this election. No prairies, Liberal majority forever.

    Nonetheless I REALLY doubt that justin would be willing to be the prime minister that allowed Canada to shatter.
    And a referendum to separate would require the Alberta Premier Jason Kenney to initiate it, and he just said he's opposed.

    Here's why justin didn't want Proportional Representation
    (quick math: seats = 338 * % vote)
    Conservative 34.4% 116 seats
    Liberal 33.1% 112 seats
    NDP 15.9% 54 seats
    Bloc 7.7% 26 seats
    Green 6.5% 22 seats
    PPC 1.6% 5 seats
    Independent 1.6% 1 seats
    -- https://enr.elections.ca/National.aspx?lang=e
    So we would end up with coalition gov'ts forever between the 4 left wing parties and the one right wing winning the most seats but never being able to govern?

  2. #82
    Member ARCANGEL's Avatar
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    Though I am not from the West, I understand their frustration with the Liberal Government. I live in rural ag Ontario and cannot help but feel the last 4 years have been an outright attack on rural agricultural lifestyle and beliefs. This fight is not over but does have a long way to go with lack of intelligence running the Greatest Country in the World.

  3. #83
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer rangebob's Avatar
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    Nonetheless, PALers are a relatively small percentage of the population.
    Gun ownership would be a liberty issue added to a bunch of other liberty issues.
    Perhaps sort of like the last page of the USA's Declaration of Independence, where the list of grievances appears (bolded).

    IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776

    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

    When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

    He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

    He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

    He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

    He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

    He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

    He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

    He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

    He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

    He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

    For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

    For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

    He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

    He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

    He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

    He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.


    In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

    Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

    We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

    [signatures]

    -- http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

    re Supreme Court's Firearms Reference 2000

    Very little has been settled. The case was brought on the idea that the Parliament of Canada did not have the authority to write a firearms control law of this type. Unfortunately, one of the first things the lawyer in charge of the case said to the judges was, "Of course, it is perfectly all right for the Parliament of Canada to write a firearms registration system for handguns, but it is totally wrong for them to do it for rifles and shotguns.'' The judge asked why, but the lawyer did not have an answer. It was all down hill from there.

    What was settled in that was simply that the Parliament of Canada has the right to make criminal laws about firearms. That is all that was settled. There were no details about any particular provision. No one looked at the flaws in the legislation. No one looked at the conflicts with previous decisions of the Supreme Court of Canada. There was just one question: Can the Government of Canada write legislation of this type? The answer was yes. Once the Parliament of Canada has enacted legislation of that type, then it can be attacked in detail. In this country, class action lawsuits very rarely get anywhere. We are not like the Americans in that area. On the other hand, when the government attacks an individual citizen in a way that will attack his liberty and his capability of doing things that he needs to do for his livelihood, then the judges in the lower courts who are hearing these cases look at them much more critically, and they look at the law much more critically. It is a rather funny law.

    -- Dave Tomlinson

    The judicial branch of the government is different from the legislative/administrative branch in one very important respect: the courts do not have the power to initiate action by themselves. Parliament can pass laws, but courts could not review these actions on their own initiative. Courts have to wait until a dispute - a "case or controversy" - broke out between real people who had something to gain or lose by the outcome. And as it turned out, the people whose rights were most vulnerable to governmental abuse had least capacity to sue.
    ...
    The most common constitutional violations went unchallenged because the people whose rights were most often denied were precisely those members of society who were least aware of their rights and least able to afford a lawyer. They had no access to those impenetrable bulwarks of liberty - the courts.
    -- paraphrased, copied mostly, from the ACLU
    Last edited by rangebob; 10-24-2019 at 12:32 PM.

  4. #84
    Member ryan_s's Avatar
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    I will definitely be writing my MP and MLA on the topic!

  5. #85
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    Well stated, gun owners need to stick together

  6. #86
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer infideleggwelder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conmaesta View Post
    It's not just about the West regarding firearms, It's all of Canadians...We as gun owners need to reinforce that we did not support him and that's why he is in a minority...Go after the gangbangers and other criminals..Don't go after legal gun owners...We are not the problem.
    be it known that I have no love whatsoever for liberals and their type, and the next 9 months or so are not going to go fast enough for me to get out of here and back home, but after thinking about the election results, had JT stayed away from legal owners who responsibly use firearms and instead focused on crime and unlawful use of firearms, he very well could have won another majority, or at the very least, a very strong minority. I know he alienated more than one liberal gun owner(but not in NL, everyone here voted in droves for the liberals.).
    "And so we go, on with our lives. We know the truth, but prefer lies. Lies are simple, simple is bliss. Why go against tradition when we can Admit defeat, live in decline Be the victim of our own design"

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by infideleggwelder View Post
    be it known that I have no love whatsoever for liberals and their type, and the next 9 months or so are not going to go fast enough for me to get out of here and back home, but after thinking about the election results, had JT stayed away from legal owners who responsibly use firearms and instead focused on crime and unlawful use of firearms, he very well could have won another majority, or at the very least, a very strong minority. I know he alienated more than one liberal gun owner(but not in NL, everyone here voted in droves for the liberals.).
    Great thought. I wonder if the liberals have thought of this also?

  8. #88
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Power Pill's Avatar
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    I love the idea, but I live in Ontario and my MP is Liberal...Wish i could help on this..
    Feuer frei! Bang Bang!

  9. #89
    CGN frequent flyer King0265's Avatar
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    Anyone think this whole brexit thing is a divide and conquer tactic?

  10. #90
    CGN Regular vcmm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eulsam View Post
    This is a start. You don't begin with negotiations by demanding everything under the sun. If we can stop the forthcoming ban, we can then work towards and build a case on getting things like the Swiss guns and others that are wrongfully prohib status reverted back to a legal status. Rome wasn't built in a day.
    https://youtu.be/HggvsHLbheQ?t=2

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