Any word on development of a short GSG-16 barrel?

[Paul_T]

Wouldn't this just make it look like the stock faux suppressed length again....?

See post 200

[sky52]

Same reason they recommend high velocity ammo: to have enough blowback energy to reliably cycle the bolt & recoil springs. Shorter barrel = less energy into the bullet, and also less energy backwards towards the bolt.
"Quiet" or subsonic ammo probably won't cycle reliably.
Are real silencers legal in Canada?
What are ppl hoping to thread onto the threaded end?

That has nothing to do with barrel length. .22 is a blow back, all the energy is right up in the chamber. If it wont cycle an 8inch barrel, it wont cycle a 20 inch.

[Rimfire001]

That has nothing to do with barrel length. .22 is a blow back, all the energy is right up in the chamber. If it wont cycle an 8inch barrel, it wont cycle a 20 inch.

So by your thinking, it wouldn't matter if the barrel was just 1"? You believe both the bullet and the bolt would both act exactly the same as on a 20" barrel?

What actually happens is that the bullet acts as a temporary "plug" whilst travelling down the barrel.
It has flown out of the barrel by the time the powder-casing has pushed the bolt back enough to reverse out of the firing chamber.
During the time the bullet is racing down the barrel, it is being pushed by the pressurized gases.
Those gasses act like a spring, a spring pushing against the the bullet, but also pushing the bolt backwards too, in an equal and opposite manner, as dictated by Newton's laws of physics. ("every action has an equal and opposite reaction")

Since the block is much heavier, and has it's own recoil springs behind it too, it takes longer to recoil backwards, giving the bullet enough time to clear the barrel, before unplugging the barrel.

So imagine if the bullet never left and the barrel stayed plugged? Then you'd get a face full of hot gasses at the ejector port. The bullet has to leave, it has to unplug the barrel, but not too soon, else the heavy bolt & recoil springs doesn't get pushed backwards for long enough, and it won't cycle reliably.

One might ask, "why not make the bolt & recoil springs lighter then?"
Well the recoil springs are responsible for stripping the next round from your magazine.
And I guess the block being heavy helps you feel less recoil sharpness, and it's momentum gives the bullet enough time to leave the barrel, before you get a faceful of hot gasses.

Other anecdotes to explain:
1) put a bunch of bullets in a campfire. They explode, but aren't really dangerous, the bullet, nor casing, do not fly outwards at deadly velocity. They need the barrel to focus, or funnel the explosion. Don't believe me? Then:
2) Inflate a balloon. Then either pop it with a pin. Or, let it go and watch the balloon fly around. The difference is the funnelling of the gases through a nozzle (i.e. barrel), vs. just having it explode in mid air and going nowhere (no barrel, or 1" barrel).
3) same with a space rocket. It can explode suddenly in all directions on the launch pad. Or, if the hot gases are funnelled in one direction, the rocket/bullet takes off, yay! But the bullet needs something to "push" against, which is the bolt and recoil springs. And it needs Time too, nothing happens instantly.

P.S. don't try 1) at home! This was actually a story told by our PAL instructor, of something he had tried with friends. And he might have put them in a flaming garbage drum instead of an open campfire...

[sky52]

The story was great to take up time during pal class.

First off, .22lr is low pressure round.

Second of all, gas lose pressure dramtically as it cools down, and in a blow back barrel they lose pressure rather quickly.

Gas port pressure on an AR carbine is 25k psi, on a midlength is 15K. A mere 2.7 inch difference and it lost 10k.

My math stands correct ish. Given the rate of loss, at 5.8 inches it would dissipate most of it gas pressure

To put the math perspective in your head, a .22 has a chamber pressure of 22K on a high velocity load.

[Rimfire001]

The story was great to take up time during pal class.

First off, .22lr is low pressure round.

Second of all, gas lose pressure dramtically as it cools down, and in a blow back barrel they lose pressure rather quickly.

Gas port pressure on an AR carbine is 25k psi, on a midlength is 15K. A mere 2.7 inch difference and it lost 10k.

My math stands correct ish. Given the rate of loss, at 5.8 inches it would dissipate most of it gas pressure

To put the math perspective in your head, a .22 has a chamber pressure of 22K on a high velocity load.

No need to look at AR rounds when we have the actual 22LR graph that I had originally posted:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/2...phs+/22ME.html

At the 5.8" that you arbitrarily selected, the Velocitor has around 125lb-ft energy.
Versus about 160lb-ft at 16" barrel length.
That could be the difference between reliably cycling or not. Especially after the gun gets dirty, or the lube wears away...
Of course this depends if "my" theory is applicable, about "bullet energy equals bolt recoil energy".

Which should be pretty sound, if we ignore the frictional losses of the bullet rubbing and spinning during it's travel down the barrel's rifle grooves.

P.S. Velocitor is hyper velocity, if we started off with a weaker round, (but still "high velocity") like the CCI MiniMag, then we'd drop from 130lb-ft @ 16" to around 108lb-ft @ 5.8".
Where 108lb-ft is probably near the energy of "Standard" ammo, which the GSG-16 is not recommended for, I believe I've read somewhere...

P.P.S. no matter if we had AR pressures, things still take TIME to be moved. A rocket has a lot of pressure too, but it has to fire for several minutes to get moved. The longer the barrel, the longer distance the bullet has to travel, and the longer time that the pressure inside the barrel is "plugged". After it unplugs, then pressure disappears rapidly, and the force pushing the bolt back also disappears.

[OkayShooter]

Reverse fake suppressor would be more inline with the looks of the MP5-SD. That would thread on 'backwards', covering the barrel all the way to the handguard.
As it is, the 16" barrel is too long for the MP5-SD look.

Would need like a 13" or 14" barrel for a reserve can to work. The 9" will just stick out an inch or so after the front sight. And would look about the same, as the regular.

No need to look at AR rounds when we have the actual 22LR graph that I had originally posted:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/2...phs+/22ME.html

At the 5.8" that you arbitrarily selected, the Velocitor has around 125lb-ft energy.
Versus about 160lb-ft at 16" barrel length.
That could be the difference between reliably cycling or not. Especially after the gun gets dirty, or the lube wears away...
Of course this depends if "my" theory is applicable, about "bullet energy equals bolt recoil energy".

Which should be pretty sound, if we ignore the frictional losses of the bullet rubbing and spinning during it's travel down the barrel's rifle grooves.

P.S. Velocitor is hyper velocity, if we started off with a weaker round, (but still "high velocity") like the CCI MiniMag, then we'd drop from 130lb-ft @ 16" to around 108lb-ft @ 5.8".
Where 108lb-ft is probably near the energy of "Standard" ammo, which the GSG-16 is not recommended for, I believe I've read somewhere...

You may sound smart, but when you asked if silencers are legal. You lost any followers.

I ran CCI mini mags, CCI Standard, CCI Subsonic HP, and 2 other HV ammo. CCI Quiets did exit the barrel. So I dunno where you saw, not recommended.

I only asked what chamber they are because LW are normally match barrels, not many will want to run match ammo. I had a Dlask 8" 10/22 barrel with the sporter chamber, and cycled fine.

[Rimfire001]

You may sound smart, but when you asked if silencers are legal. You lost any followers.

I was literally reading people drooling and wetting their panties over this "black 9" barrel deal, and I didn't see the benefits besides having a threaded barrel end. So I asked what ppl planned to thread onto the end, and intimated that silencers were NOT legal in Canada. I suspected they were not legal, but, given the gun laws are convoluted "because Canada", plus I consume a lot of USA gun reviews which mostly enjoy legal silencers, I thought I'd ask for clarification.
Please don't gatekeep on what questions can or cannot be asked.

As for HV ammo, it's apparently recommended by the manufacturer, and here's a quote from a review:

Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/09/american-tactical-gsg-16-22lr-video-review/#ixzz66JIkqmml

Features:

.22LR (High Velocity recommended, 1260fps recommended)

Despite the manufacturers warning on sticking with mid-weight, high-velocity rounds we found that when clean and lubricated the GSG-16 would run most ammunition.
--
Endquote from ammoland.com

So as they, and myself suggested, if it's lubed and clean it can cycle with lower power ammo.
Also, even the lowest power ammo will have the "bullet leave the barrel".
It is whether there was enough energy to cycle the bolt back enough, to strip the next round from your magazine.
Did yours cycle the next round of CCI Quiet, or did it just have a single "bullet leave barrel"?
Am I allowed to ask that, or am I gonna lose you as a follower?
(why is everyone so snarky on this thread, geez?!)

[Dlask Arms]

My $.02 ? Most blowback .22s can be tuned to cycle all but the lightest loads. Cleaned and well lubricated are a huge factor ,true, but so is bolt weight, polishing and spring poundage. All of these can be fine tuned by an experienced gunsmith.

[Rimfire001]

My $.02 ? Most blowback .22s can be tuned to cycle all but the lightest loads. Cleaned and well lubricated are a huge factor ,true, but so is bolt weight, polishing and spring poundage. All of these can be fine tuned by an experienced gunsmith.

I agree. This GSG-16 experiences some diverse usage situations, like the 110 round drum potentially offering uneven round-stripping forces. Even the 22rd stick mag can fit 24 if you squeeze them, but they recommend only 22, probably coz it's gets pretty tight to cycle the first 2 of 24.
To go further with the topic, a shortened barrel could even cause the stick mag to be less reliable even at only 22 rnds. Folks might need to only load up to 20rnds for example.
Why? Because it's not just the recoil springs' force that strips the next round, it could be "rebound" too, where the bolt "bounces" off the backstop, on it's way forward to strip next round.

To go even further, a heavy bolt not only makes the bolt heavier, it requires a more robust rest-of-gun too, since the heavy bolt will be bouncing back and forth.
Even further, the potential AUTOMATIC rate of fire would probably be faster, with a lighter bolt.
Not relevant with a semi-auto GSG16, but ya, there's a lot of engineering in the guns, and we can't just lop off barrels, run unrecommended ammo etc. and go, "it'll work, no numbers allowed, numbers not fun!"

Dlask and GSG would be the ones suffering the phone calls and bad reviews, from the end users who don't really understand what goes into designing their toys.

[Dlask Arms]

We'll know soon enough. The first 3 barrels are due back here on Weds....