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Thread: Ruger charger pcc pistol

  1. #61
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Canuck44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashAlberta View Post
    Bob,
    Pistols and pistol mags are all 10 rounds. The pistol caliber carbines use pistol mags thus limiting them to 10 rounds. Having a pistol caliber pistol will still be 10 rounds so no change.
    OK I will try to be gentle in my reply.

    There is a company in the US that makes a "pistol" based upon the AK 47 that uses mags that will fit the CZ Scorpian Evo Carbine. If the rule is as simple as you suggest the Evo would be allowed to have 10 rd mags just like the AR platform is allowed to use mags with pistol written on them because Smith & Wesson and others now make pistols with AR receivers. In the case of the AR of course the RCMP ignore the fact the AR platform ALSO is made in the US in select fire versions.

    The RCMP have ruled that because the semi auto EVO is a variant of the select fire Scorpian it is limited to 5 rds. There is another PCC platform that is made in select fire versions EXACTLY the same as the Scorpian and that PCC is allowed to use 10 rd pistol mags. To add to the mix, while the AR 10 rd mags must have pistol written on them to be legally loaded to 10 rds the PCC, which will remain unnamed, enjoys 10 rd mags that do not have to have pistol written on them.

    I am sure you knew all that or you would not have reminded me that pistol mags hold ten rounds and sometimes PCC's do and sometimes they don't even when two guns have exactly the same family tree.

    Take Care

    Bob
    ps NOne of the above addresses the convoluted mess the rim fire boys face when it comes to semi-auto rifles. Some get 10 rd mags and some get as many as you can lift. Depends sometimes on how it looks while others...well it depends on what the weegee board came up with.
    Last edited by Canuck44; 04-08-2020 at 12:18 PM.
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  2. #62
    Uber Super GunNutz aakoksal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck44 View Post
    OK I will try to be gentle in my reply.

    There is a company in the US that makes a "pistol" based upon the AK 47 that uses mags that will fit the CZ Scorpian Evo Carbine. If the rule is as simple as you suggest the Evo would be allowed to have 10 rd mags just like the AR platform is allowed to use mags with pistol written on them because Smith & Wesson and others now make pistols with AR receivers. In the case of the AR of course the RCMP ignore the fact the AR platform ALSO is made in the US in select fire versions.

    The RCMP have ruled that because the semi auto EVO is a variant of the select fire Scorpian it is limited to 5 rds. There is another PCC platform that is made in select fire versions EXACTLY the same as the Scorpian and that PCC is allowed to use 10 rd pistol mags. To add to the mix, while the AR 10 rd mags must have pistol written on them to be legally loaded to 10 rds the PCC, which will remain unnamed, enjoys 10 rd mags that do not have to have pistol written on them.

    I am sure you knew all that or you would not have reminded me that pistol mags hold ten rounds and sometimes PCC's do and sometimes they don't even when two guns have exactly the same family tree.

    Take Care

    Bob
    If that said pistol based upon the AK47 that uses mags that fit the CZ Scorpion Evo Carbine made it to Canada and received a restricted Pistol FRT number, than a 10 round magazine would be possible wouldn't it? Not sure if an AK47 being prohibited by name would ever make it to Canada though, although using a different magazine...

  3. #63
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Canuck44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aakoksal View Post
    If that said pistol based upon the AK47 that uses mags that fit the CZ Scorpion Evo Carbine made it to Canada and received a restricted Pistol FRT number, than a 10 round magazine would be possible wouldn't it? Not sure if an AK47 being prohibited by name would ever make it to Canada though, although using a different magazine...
    I don't think so. The basis for their ruling, as I understand it was that the Evo is made in a select fire version and the RCMP ruled, the carbine as a variant. You cannot import a select fire firearm into Canada now for civilian sale so I doubt having a FRT number had anything to do with their ruling. I am certain there are no select fire versions of the PCC I will not name ever sold in Canada. If and when Trudeau gets bounced from power maybe our Conservative friends will grow a pair and remove the RCMP's ability to rule as they do and also remove some of the restrictions on mag capacity. there is nothing to justify what we have now. All it is, is politics. We all know that and the politicians from all parties know that as well. I think there are ways to get us 30/33 rd mag capacity for range use only while participating in competitions for example that would be entirely reasonable.

    Take Care

    Bob
    ps if things got bad enough and it could, your electric drill might be your best tool in your tool box.
    A recent study has shown 1 out of 3 liberals are as stupid as the other 2.
    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

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  4. #64
    CGN Regular Crashed's Avatar
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    Bob,
    I will try and be gentle with my response.

    That Pistol you reference would not be allowed in Canada as it is a double whammy against it. Even if it was not select fire, if it is based upon the AK47 it would still not be allowed. Look at the Mossberg blaze 22lr, and notice how it’s approved but not the AK47 body kit. I admit, it is interesting that the Vz58 and CZ858 were allowed. I am assuming they did not claim direct lineage back to the AK47 when submitted for approval.

    If there was a pistol approved, provided and FRT actually available for sale in Canada that used the Evo mags then you would indeed be able to buy them. Also remember that a carbine is not a pistol, and it is a rifle. Magazines designed and made for rifles are restricted to 5 rounds. This is the reason the Evo mags are 5 rounders and has nothing to do with a gun not available here, but simple because it is a rifle. This is why the 556 & 308 mags must say pistol on them, and again if there were not “pistols” available in those calibers to buy in Canada then they would disallow them.
    To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and then claim whatever you hit as the target .

  5. #65
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Canuck44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashed View Post
    Bob,
    I will try and be gentle with my response.

    That Pistol you reference would not be allowed in Canada as it is a double whammy against it. Even if it was not select fire, if it is based upon the AK47 it would still not be allowed. Look at the Mossberg blaze 22lr, and notice how it’s approved but not the AK47 body kit. I admit, it is interesting that the Vz58 and CZ858 were allowed. I am assuming they did not claim direct lineage back to the AK47 when submitted for approval.

    If there was a pistol approved, provided and FRT actually available for sale in Canada that used the Evo mags then you would indeed be able to buy them. Also remember that a carbine is not a pistol, and it is a rifle. Magazines designed and made for rifles are restricted to 5 rounds. This is the reason the Evo mags are 5 rounders and has nothing to do with a gun not available here, but simple because it is a rifle. This is why the 556 & 308 mags must say pistol on them, and again if there were not “pistols” available in those calibers to buy in Canada then they would disallow them.
    Crashed explain to me why the Beretta CX4 Storm uses 10 rd mags that are not marked "Pistol" or why the pistol that uses mags that fit the Evo are not allowed to have 10 rounds in them when inserted into a Evo.

    Last time I looked the AR is a rifle yet it can use 10 rd pistol mags. The law says pistol mags can be loaded to 10 rounds it does not say they must be inserted into pistols to be legal.

    There is no difference except there is one ruling for one gun and another for another. CZ makes a pistol version of the Evo similar to what Ruger has done with their PCC that can be bought in Canada but it didn't seem to make any difference. I didn't bring up the Evo pistol because the RCMP had already made their ruling regarding the select fire version and how it impacted their decision to limit the Evo to five rounds. The weegee board in action.

    Be gentle as you want there is no simple logic here and most of us know that. You might want to revisit your post #59. Not all PCC the shoot pistol calibers use 10 round pistol mags. Only some PCC use 10 rd pistol mags some use pistol mags that are limited to 5 rounds by the RCMP not necessarily the law as it is written.

    Take care

    Bob
    A recent study has shown 1 out of 3 liberals are as stupid as the other 2.
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  6. #66
    CGN Regular Crashed's Avatar
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    Bob what mags does the Beretta use? Answer that and you have your answer? Heck I will save you the work and they use either the 92/96 magazines or the PX4 magazines.....both pistols. There you go that’s why the Beretta can use 10 round mags because it uses mags from pistols.

    What pistol readily available in Canada uses Evo magazines? The Scorpion ultimately is a 9mm carbine that is being sold as a pistol in the USA to get around their National Firearms Act, short barrelled rifles definition.

    As to I’m your point about the AR’s as stated those are PISTOL mags that are 10 rounds and being used. The mags are specifically designed for Pistols that are readily available and owned in Canada by folks and just happily fit the rifles.

    The rulings are not for the gun but for the magazine. The magazines made specifically for rifles are 5 rounds. The magazines made for pistols are 10 rounds. As with the AR or PCC’s if you can use a pistol magazine in them, then it is a legal 10 round mag you can use. If the Ruger Pcc, Fx9, or any of the others had their own magazine (like the Evo) then they would also be limited to 5 rounds.

    As to your last part what Pistol Caiber carbine uses a true pistol mag limited to 5 rounds? not a mag made to hold pistol ammo but a magazine made specifically and originally for a pistol readily available in Canada?
    To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and then claim whatever you hit as the target .

  7. #67
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Canuck44's Avatar
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    Gee Crashedyou keep this up and you soon will be at 200 posts. How many S&W AR pistols do you think are readily available to buy in Canada right now or when the RCMP made their ruling. I doubt anyone has even bought one of them or if they ever were imported onto Canada? How many Charger pistols do you think are available right now in Canada to buy. How many are in the country now. Readily available. Try harder.

    How many AR pistols do you see being offered for sale in Canada?

    Availability has nothing to do with the decisions that have been made. If it was there is little evidence to suggest that it has. The make of the gun is not the issue. The law says pistol mags can be loaded to 10 rounds. CZ makes a pistol that uses the same mags as their carbine just like Beretta makes Beretta makes pistol mags for their pistols that fit in their carbine there is no difference. More to the point Glock mags hold ten rounds and to my knowledge do not make a carbine while there are a number of companies making carbines that use 10 round Glock pistol mags.

    There is a thread on this forum that outlines the justification the RCMP used for the Evo being restricted to five rounds and it has nothing to do with the availability of the Evo pistol or the PSA pistol that happens to use CZ pistol mags that coincidentally uses .....opps 5 round mags. Do the reading then come back and post your next assertion.

    Take Care
    Bob
    A recent study has shown 1 out of 3 liberals are as stupid as the other 2.
    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

    Suffer the fools with grace...God made enough of them

  8. #68
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heimdall1982 View Post
    Not gonna see it happen... it would make your NR PC into a Restricted because the serial number is on the receiver part... I'm gonna buy both, one as a range toy, one as an outdoor toy...
    Yes, I know all that. You realize such a conversion can be done legally right?

  9. #69
    CGN Regular Heimdall1982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B View Post
    Yes, I know all that. You realize such a conversion can be done legally right?
    Yeah i know conversion can be done, but did your PC9 receiver will be registered as a restricted firearm and not as a NR firearm ? Will you be able to keep shooting it "outdoor" or "in range only" even if you put your PC9 18.6" barrel on it?
    #pew pew life

  10. #70
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Canuck44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heimdall1982 View Post
    Yeah i know conversion can be done, but did your PC9 receiver will be registered as a restricted firearm and not as a NR firearm ? Will you be able to keep shooting it "outdoor" or "in range only" even if you put your PC9 18.6" barrel on it?
    Make the change take it to a firearms verifier and get it re-registered as non restricted. Happens all the time with prohib handguns and frequently with rifles. Before Beretta brought out the NR version of the CX4 Storm folks converted Restricted versions to NR by replacing the barrels.

    Take Care

    Bob
    A recent study has shown 1 out of 3 liberals are as stupid as the other 2.
    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

    Suffer the fools with grace...God made enough of them

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