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Thread: Support Your Canadian Ammunition Manufacturers - NOW IS THE TIME!

  1. #61
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    New to the sport and only ever purchased foreign made ammo. But would love to support Canadian made if possible. In truth I didn't even know there was Canadian made ammunition. if we could get a good list of shops that make new and re-manufactured I'd gladly buy from them.

  2. #62
    Member BoogerChew's Avatar
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    Hard to justify buying Canadian made ammunition when Canadian reloaded ammunition is the same price or more expesive than imported ammunition and rarely in stock anywhere. Most are selling remanufactured ammunition and not even using new cases. Gotta get your prices down and supply a consistant inventory before people will start buying from you. The second time I go to a site and they have the NO INVENTORY label up on what I want then I rarely check back. Don't use the Covid crap as an excuse. Canadian Ammunition manufacturers sites where like that prior to any issues.

    You want to have a vaild Canadian Made alternative? Start making 1 or 2 of the most common caibre's in volume, get your effeciencies up and costs down. If you only made 9mm and 45acp you could figure out your processing well and create efficiencies in manufacturing. Come to market competative and with a capacity that can supply the customer once they start buying from you.

    Anyone interested in investing?
    Brian

  3. #63
    Business Member BlackSheepBrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoogerChew View Post
    Hard to justify buying Canadian made ammunition when Canadian reloaded ammunition is the same price or more expensive than imported ammunition and rarely in stock anywhere. Most are selling remanufactured ammunition and not even using new cases. Gotta get your prices down and supply a consistent inventory before people will start buying from you. The second time I go to a site and they have the NO INVENTORY label up on what I want then I rarely check back. Don't use the Covid crap as an excuse. Canadian Ammunition manufacturers sites where like that prior to any issues.

    You want to have a vaild Canadian Made alternative? Start making 1 or 2 of the most common caibre's in volume, get your effeciencies up and costs down. If you only made 9mm and 45acp you could figure out your processing well and create efficiencies in manufacturing. Come to market competative and with a capacity that can supply the customer once they start buying from you.

    Anyone interested in investing?
    I think you may have missed the mark on this one. There is a certain deflection point in which it becomes cheaper to (re)manufacture ammunition. Once you exceed one million pieces annually, your components don't really get cheaper per unit. You get efficiencies by moving faster (multiple production lines, more automation required, more staff, more overhead) I am probably the most automated shop you will see in Canada, as I can run 10,000 pieces of 9mm per hour, by myself, but it cost me $500,000 to get there.

    1) Re-manufactured ammunition by definition uses fired cases. Otherwise it would be "new ammunition"

    2) I was involved with supplying a commercial re manufacturer that output over 10,000,000 pieces a year, it was as streamlined and efficient as you can get without spending five to ten million dollars on high level automation.

    3) All components are priced in USD/Euro in OEM quantities, so when ammunition is being sold by US manufacturers at cost to move stock out from inventory (cost recovery exercise), you cannot compete with that. Unless you manufacture all your own components, at which point you become an OEM. As they where selling it at a price in which they got their "money back", and the distributor, and retailers made their money.

    4) The American companies where dumping common ammunition into the Canadian market for the past few years. There was industry action to try and get the Canadian Trade Commission to look into it, however there was no political will as our current government would rather see anything firearms related go out of business. You as the consumer have been able to pay in Canadian dollars what Americans have been paying is USD for 9mm and .223

    Click here to read about what "Dumping" is.

    If you would like to discuss this further, feel free to PM me.

  4. #64
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    Black Sheep, thank you for explaining this. I knew something didn’t add up and I have seen this in other industries, but I wasn’t aware is what was taking place here. This is the first explanation I’ve seen that made sense.

    What would be nice to see is a Canadian supplier spring up once us prices inflate. That would be pretty tough to do with startup capital required, but it would be pretty neat if possible. Of course, it would be hard if they were outsourcing any component because their competitor could raise the price on one single component to edge them out. Like if fed/rem/win is your competition but provides your bullets, they just need to charge to much for the bullets to sink your ship. Everything would need to be made here and I doubt that’s likely to be happening ever.

    Thank you for the lesson, very informative.

  5. #65
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Dexter Morgan's Avatar
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    Canada Ammo is currently making their own 7.62x39 ammunition.

    Non-corrosive.

    And it passes the "magnet test". (No steel in the projectile)

    They're selling it for $0.50 per round, which seems like a hell of a good deal.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheepBrass View Post

    3) All components are priced in USD/Euro in OEM quantities, so when ammunition is being sold by US manufacturers at cost to move stock out from inventory (cost recovery exercise), you cannot compete with that. Unless you manufacture all your own components, at which point you become an OEM. As they where selling it at a price in which they got their "money back", and the distributor, and retailers made their money.

    4) The American companies where dumping common ammunition into the Canadian market for the past few years. ... You as the consumer have been able to pay in Canadian dollars what Americans have been paying is USD for 9mm and .223
    As a consumer I've been paying in Canadian dollars what Americans have been paying in USD for 9mm and .223???

    I disagree. At no point in the past 10 years have I found 9mm or 223 priced the same, either on par or taking into account the dollar exchange difference. I have always paid more here in Canada.

    I get that our dollar hurts us as well as taxes & labor costs in comparison. I get that we do not have the market size the US does. The inability of Canadian ammunition manufacturing to purchase direct from US manufacturers of the components of ammunition also hurts us and adds cost. I get that.

    But I have not paid in Canadian dollars for what Americans have been paying in USD.

  7. #67
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    Planetmail 12, I have seen the same thing. The US sites always have lower ammo charges. But on top of those is shipping, import fees, and the cost increase due to recent supply and demand conundrums. I think if it was cheaper for us to import it directly to ourselves then you and I both would have been doing that. The retailer has to swallow those fees and then pass it on to us, while still having a profit margin. Even at wholesale prices, I think it’s still slicing it pretty thin. Plus, retailers have overhead - rent, staff, utilities, website management, etc. I would like cheaper prices too but I think the economy is a big machine with multiple layers of concern adding to it at every step.
    I wish it was cheaper too. After looking at the most recent Cabelas prices I can now see why some people don’t put enough rounds down range to be able to shoot well. It’s hard to pay for it. Handloading saves a bit but that too is rapidly rising.

  8. #68
    CGN Regular ih8ipods's Avatar
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    Would buying some old tooling from a ex combloc country be an option? I gotta assume theres one turnkey factory sitting there still. Or enough pieces and parts that we could be thrown together.and it would be cheaper technically. Would it be the pinacle of automation? No but it could be a start.
    If Canada banned guns in 1812 and it was not for armed volunteers we would be saying the pledge of allegiance right now. Call me a true Canadian but I believe the annual day we burned the white house down should be a paid holiday.

  9. #69
    CGN Regular sunjeep24's Avatar
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    When a business list prices with bring your own brass?

    Does that mean I have to bring clean and ready to be reloaded? Or fired brass from the range to make a swap for there future reloading?

  10. #70
    GunNutz hammering hank's Avatar
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    Boogerchew I'm confused, what part of the remanufactured ammunition would the "re" part be if not the brass???
    "Most are selling remanufactured ammunition and not even using new cases"

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