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Thread: Support Your Canadian Ammunition Manufacturers - NOW IS THE TIME!

  1. #1
    Business Member BlackSheepBrass's Avatar
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    Support Your Canadian Ammunition Manufacturers - NOW IS THE TIME!

    **** Updated 1 April 2020**********

    Just to update everyone, I was talking to some of my contacts today. It seems like the only ammunition that "may" be imported into Canada in the next 6 - 9 months may be PMC from Korea. Everyone I am talking to in my industry in the USA is saying that they are back ordered until at least 4th quarter 2020 on all components, and that may push into 2021 based on how this situation continues to evolve.

    The order in which things are dealt with will allow you to extrapolate a bit of a timeline on when you may see reasonably priced components come back into Canada.

    US Military
    US LEO / Government Agencies
    US Tier one OEM Commercial (Federal, Winchester, Etc.)
    US Tier two OEM (Grind Hard ammo as an example)
    US Remanufactuers
    US Consumer Reloaders

    We will see ammunition coming back into Canada consistently between tier two manufactures and US remanufacturers. Once US consumer reloaders have a steady supply of components, they will look back to export markets.

    ************************************ Original Post**************************************

    I will warn you all in advance that this is a bit of a rant. But hopefully it will give you some perspective from the Canadian Manufacturing Industry side of things. This is me not asking for a pity party, this me just trying to shed some light on a rather opaque industry.

    Over the past few years the influx of extremely inexpensive ammunition from the United States and other locations has created a bit of a false economy in regards to ammunition prices. The beneficiaries of this situation where obviously consumers with lots of availability at prices that even commercial re-manufactures in Canada have a hard time assembling the ammunition for. We are now seeing the consequences of this (or will shortly).

    The causative factors that lead the these extremely low prices included:
    1. Reasonable exchange rates
    2. Huge inventory surplus that was as a result of the Clinton / Trump election
    3. Reduced American military usage
    4. A race to the bottom with some retailers using 9mm and .223 Remington as a "loss leader" (They sell a product below their actual cost including overhead, wages and shipping) to get you in the door on the hopes that you will buy a gun to go with it.
    5. A consumer demand for the absolute "cheapest" ammunition that values nothing but the cost.


    These factors contributed to this near perfect storm for ammunition manufacturers within Canada. Unfortunately it caused some shops to close. All the manufacturers in Canada that I have spoken to, all have heard the same line from consumers and retailers, the statement is roughly as follows. "Lower your prices and we will buy more from you." If it was only as simple as that it would have been done.

    I will use my business as an illustrative model. I personally have about $500,000 in equipment sitting in my shop. I have to make payments on equipment, cover overhead expenses, and actually buy brass. If I don't sell $10,000 a month in brass minimum to commercial loaders and consumers, I lose money. It is that simple.

    Over the next few weeks ammunition from the USA will begin to dry up due and prices will begin climb significantly due to these factors and others:

    1. Extremely high demand within the American market (We are a secondary market and are only serviced after American demand is met)
    2. CAD vs USD losing 15% over the past week (and it will get worse)
    3. Restrictions at border
    4. Component factory closures internationally for the foreseeable future


    I deal with a few American reloading companies, and they are running 24/7 and they cannot get more components, the supplies are depleted. These guys are not small shops either, I am talking 10 - 15 million rounds a month. They have buying power, and it is just not available.

    I am lucky as I don't count on the business for income, as I would have lost my house long ago. I got into this because I had a passion, I saw an opportunity and I had the ability to make a move. I will not recommend any specific ammunition manufacturer in Canada, do your research, talk to them, but please do not waste their time. But maybe instead consider buying remanufactured or new Canadian ammunition. It may cost you a few dollars more, but you aren't giving your money to faceless corporation. You are circulating your money in the Canadian economy, and at this time that is probably the best thing you can do for everyone.

    Just some food for thought.

    Brian
    Black Sheep Brass

    ******** Updated Information ***********

    I do not sell assembled ammunition - I only sell brass shell casings. To find an exhaustive list of who is legally allowed to manufacture ammunition for sale within Canada follow these instructions below.

    To access the Natural Resources Canada (NRCAN) Registry of all who is permitted to manufacturer ammunition within Canada. Go to this website and select classification "C.1 - Small arms cartridges" from the first drop down menu

    CLICK HERE

    Ammunition Manufacturers by Province (That I am aware of). Some may be now defunct, I try and keep apprised of who is who in the zoo. If you don't see someone you know is operational, or you see someone who is now defunct please let me know.

    British Columbia
    Custom Reloading Service - Maple Ridge
    Sterling Cross - Abbotsford

    Alberta
    Canadian BDX - Black Diamond
    Wasp Munitions - Sylvan Lake
    Western Metal - Calgary

    Saskatchewan
    Nil

    Manitoba
    Score - Carberry - Shotgun Only

    Ontario
    Custom Bullets & Ammunition - Cambridge
    Wolf Bullets - Kingston

    Quebec
    Centaure Industries Ltd. - Laval
    Challenger - Saint Justine de Newton - Shotgun Only

    Maritimes
    NIL

    NON OPERATIONAL / LIMITED CONSUMER SALES / AWAITING UPDATES

    IVI /GD (General Dynamics) does not do consumer sales, if there is a break in military production then they may operate on contract for a commercial entity.

    X-Metal has no plans to load ammunition as of right now,they will not be added to the list.
    Last edited by BlackSheepBrass; 04-01-2020 at 08:10 PM.

  2. #2
    GunNutz Stormchaser's Avatar
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    I think there are many of us just looking for who has stock. I was not aware of your company so thank you!

  3. #3
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer just having some fun's Avatar
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    thanks Brian
    for setting up shop and selling us once fired brass
    if i need brass your website will be the first place I will look

  4. #4
    Business Member BlackSheepBrass's Avatar
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    Thanks for your guys support and actually taking the time to read this. Even if you are not sure where to get remanufactured ammunition, talk to your local gun store and ask them to stock Canadian remanufactured ammunition. They will know where to find it from reputable sources.

  5. #5
    CGN frequent flyer
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    Do you sell to regular people? I'm just Joe Schmuck. Can I email and order, say, 5000 rounds of 9mm?

  6. #6
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    Although I am new to the site, this was a very informative AND insightful post. Being in business, I complete admire the context of this post. It is true that while everyone is doing their best during unknown and unsure times, community support becomes very important. Thanks.

  7. #7
    CGN Regular Mark Mags's Avatar
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    Does your ammo take AK mags? Lol

    Post makes perfect sense, and I appreciate the Canadian manufacturing companies. Not easy times for sure...
    Thanks...Mark

  8. #8
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    Thanks for posting this. It absolutely stuns me how many guys on Gunnutz have no concept of how businesses operate or supply/demand.
    I grew up in a family supported by a small auto parts company. On Saturdays my Dad called on customers while my mom cleaned the office and bathroom and did the book keeping. I pulled orders off the shelves until I was old enough (11) to operate the forklift. My little sister pulled orders from the shelves she could reach and also packed orders.
    We prayed for bad weather and long winters because starter motors and batteries would fly off the shelves and Dad could even hire a few warehouse guys.
    The amount of bitching here about prices is nuts.
    Thanks for all your hard work and keeping your business here in Canada, buying from Canadians and selling to Canadians and feeding your Canadian kids.
    Brad

  9. #9
    Super GunNutz GreenBob's Avatar
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    Pendulum swings both ways.

    I have no issues support Canadian re-manufacturers but let's not kid ourselves. For twenty five or so years, those same importers and manufacturers have been making hand over first in the Canadian firearm and ammo market. It's only with internet and the on-line shopping that your average gunny started to understand how much mark up there is in Canada. And realistically, it was only in last 3 or so years when IR__G__S came along that the prices have seriously dropped.

    Just some food for thought from someone who spends and has lot of money invested in this hobby.

    Cheers,
    davecasey: "I hope the bill (bill c71) goes through and they take you ar15 and leave you holding your tiny sick in your hands." (he is a classic act, isn't he?)
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    Member - CCFR, CSSA and NFA.

  10. #10
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Runningfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heddok View Post
    Thanks for posting this. It absolutely stuns me how many guys on Gunnutz have no concept of how businesses operate or supply/demand.
    I grew up in a family supported by a small auto parts company. On Saturdays my Dad called on customers while my mom cleaned the office and bathroom and did the book keeping. I pulled orders off the shelves until I was old enough (11) to operate the forklift. My little sister pulled orders from the shelves she could reach and also packed orders.
    We prayed for bad weather and long winters because starter motors and batteries would fly off the shelves and Dad could even hire a few warehouse guys.
    The amount of bitching here about prices is nuts.
    Thanks for all your hard work and keeping your business here in Canada, buying from Canadians and selling to Canadians and feeding your Canadian kids.
    Brad
    Very similar experience for me growing up (though we didn’t have a forklift, you lucky sob ). First cold snap of the season would thankfully lead to more than a few battery sales and with any luck a new set of wipers to go with it. Then one day I remember my dad telling me that the new Price Club store (now Costco ) was selling cases of oil for cheaper than he could buy it for. So his customers drove an hour to save $5 on a case of oil. My dad never blamed them, how could you? Things change. But if all consumers ever consider is finding the cheapest price then don’t be surprised if you end up gutting your own local economy...the garage owner buying his oil at Price Club saves $5 on a case of oil but a few months later wonders why the parts guy that worked for my dad no longer takes his car in to him to get serviced..turns out that guy moved because my dad couldn’t afford to keep him on. So many consumers haven’t got a clue how hard it is for a small business to keep the lights on day to day - I applaud Black Sheep Brass for giving an honest glimpse into the realities they face.

    I guess my experience growing up is probably why I have a bit of a soft spot for Canadian businesses. At any rate, I hope the folks behind Black Sheep Brass do better under this new ammunition reality we find ourselves in, though I suspect for many shooters the amount of money they have available to spend on ammunition is about to take a steep dive for a bit.

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