CPC Leadership

[BabySeal]

Sorry. Calling a Mr a Mrs or vice versa is inappropriate.

It should not however, be a crime.

[All in fun]

So, Leslyn Lewis has as part of her platform that she plans to repeal Bill C-16. It's not what I think, it's what is clearly stated in her platform.

"I will also repeal Bill C-16, which attacks free speech, threatening fines and sanctions against people who use incorrect speech. I believe that Canadian laws sufficiently protect against actual abuses and harassment of individuals."

https://www.leslynlewis.ca/policies (Scroll down to Attacks on Freedom)

Let's clear this up. What she calls 'incorrect speech' is called general decency and common courtesy. Im so sorry using the pronouns someone asks, or not dead-naming (using their pre-transition name) is such a ####ing giant imposition. Nobody seems to find using Ms/Mrs/Miss for a woman difficult, so why is they/them or their chosen name so goddamn difficult.

C-16 added 'gender identity or expression' to the protected groups under the Canadian Human Rights Act and to the 'identifiable groups' in the Criminal Code.

https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/e.../first-reading

A repeal of C-16 would, in effect, strip from trans and non-binary people protections from discrimination under the Human Rights Act (based on their gender identity or expression). It would also mean that crimes committed against these people would not result in additional considerations during sentencing if the crimes were motivated by bias/discrimination/etc due to their gender identity or expression (like it would if that was the motivation for a crime against any other [defined] identifiable group)


https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/...ion-718.2.html




So, in summary, she'd like to strip important human rights protections from trans and non-binary people.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

To me, your comments make no sense. You suggest people should be called whatever they want. I will call people by whatever term fits my thought of what gender they look like. If they say they aren't that gender, then in almost all cases I'll say sorry, my bad, and move forward. But your thought is I should somehow guess whatever the other person wants me to say even if I know otherwise. That is an infringement on free speech, and since there is a potential legal penalty for it, it's terrible legislation. So any candidate that doesn't feel that way is one I wouldn't vote for. I have no interest in discrimination, but I don't support criminalizing speech except in very narrow circumstances. The legislation, to me, is abhorrent.

[P11]

Here's an idea:

If you want Lewis to be an electable candidate, get her to drop 2 things...

1. Abortion; all she has to say is "personally opposed but I support a woman's right to choose and will not move to change any laws or restrict access, and will not allow party members to put forward legislation to that affect"

2. LGBTQ+ right; she wants to repeal C16 which provides protection from discrimination to trans/non binary folks under the CHRA and Criminal Code. She keeps that in her platform and she won't get many moderates voting for her.

lmfao the people who care about "trans rights" will never even vote conservative to begin with.

There is no such thing as trans rights. The inhumane practice of sex changing surgeries and giving kids hormone blockers and estrogen/testosterone needs to be abolished.

[Skerps]

Oh man, now you’re really opening a can of worms talking about C16!

Repealing that doesn’t take away any rights of trans people - but it does, imho, fix the dangerous precedent of suppressing free speech that law has started down the path of... I think making issues of LGBTQ, etc, a thing should be long past us, the majority of Canadians don’t think twice anymore - live and let live. Just like the many gay people I work with, they themselves keep dragging drama up when it is a total non issue to everyone else. It’s noise. We should focus on other, more important, matters. I’m not trying to offend anyone, just my opinion...

[anton520b]

Apologies for steering off the topic, just a quick note to all: The resistance to dictatorship has started

[l!fealert]

Sorry. Calling a Mr a Mrs or vice versa is inappropriate.

It should not however, be a crime.

It's not a crime until you do it intentionally.

Nobody's charging you for doing it accidentally, being corrected, and then (using a bit of common courtesy) using the pronouns the individual prefers

[l!fealert]

To me, your comments make no sense. You suggest people should be called whatever they want. I will call people by whatever term fits my thought of what gender they look like. If they say they aren't that gender, then in almost all cases I'll say sorry, my bad, and move forward. But your thought is I should somehow guess whatever the other person wants me to say even if I know otherwise. That is an infringement on free speech, and since there is a potential legal penalty for it, it's terrible legislation. So any candidate that doesn't feel that way is one I wouldn't vote for. I have no interest in discrimination, but I don't support criminalizing speech except in very narrow circumstances. The legislation, to me, is abhorrent.

This has nothing to do with 'guessing'... If a trans person corrects you on pronouns, and you apologize / use the ones they ask, end of story. If they correct you and you continue intentionally using the wrong ones... Now you've got discrimination.

[l!fealert]

Oh man, now you’re really opening a can of worms talking about C16!

Repealing that doesn’t take away any rights of trans people - but it does, imho, fix the dangerous precedent of suppressing free speech that law has started down the path of... I think making issues of LGBTQ, etc, a thing should be long past us, the majority of Canadians don’t think twice anymore - live and let live. Just like the many gay people I work with, they themselves keep dragging drama up when it is a total non issue to everyone else. It’s noise. We should focus on other, more important, matters. I’m not trying to offend anyone, just my opinion...

Repealing it quite literally takes away their right to be free from discrimination based on their gender identity/expression.

The only time this affects your speech is when you start being intentionally discriminatory; ie intentionally using the wrong pronouns or dead naming them

[BlackVoid]

Repealing it quite literally takes away their right to be free from discrimination based on their gender identity/expression.

The only time this affects your speech is when you start being intentionally discriminatory; ie intentionally using the wrong pronouns or dead naming them

Who decides whenever it was intentional or not? You?

[l!fealert]

Who decides whenever it was intentional or not? You?

Well, if you do it by accident and are corrected, and then continue to do it, it's pretty obviously no longer an accident