Service Rifle SR CQB with BOLT Guns

[TacticalTeacher]

All I can sarcastically say is, “Marty; We’re going BACK to the Future!”

With all this talk about AR’s, OIC, Covid, I wanted to positively entertain a discussion about bolt gun use in Service Rifle (SR) and CQB Courses of Fire (CoF)

I see an opportunity when others choose to see a problem.... good, bad, or indifferent. Only time will tell when the lawyers have to go through the entire process. In the meantime, we Match Directors have a responsibility to keep the Matches and Training rolling for newbies, beginners, soldiers, Shooting Teams, Brigade Teams, and other Marksmanship enthusiasts. Even if we have to use bolt guns.

Been there, and done that! I’ve been competing in SR events since 1986 (both American and Canadian rule sets).

I’ve employed both Winchester Model 70 (push feed Coyote .223 w/9” twist barrel, ( with these 68 gr, 69 gr, 75 gr Amax booolits). It was a medium profiled barrel. We used (my 13 year old son) to stuff 7 rounds inside the internal box magazine on the commands: Load ! Ready! During the rapids my son and I were able to get all 7 rounds off and maybe that single 8th loosely shoved on the magazine follower and bolt hammered home.

I’ve competed with a Remmy 700 P with 24” barrel and the 3 round factory DM. On the command load and Ready, I would chamber a round, engage the safety, then insert a factory 3 round magazine. Oh BTW, this was back in 1992/93. My Colt HBar stayed at home and so did my M1A Sporter. Okay, on the reloads for the rapid, I would run my rifle dry, toss one round and close the bolt, then slap in that second 3 round factory magazine. Keith C of Milcun Marksmanship Complex was the RSO and we shared some lively discussions after the matches.

Fast forward to 2020, we have a shzt tonne of platforms for bolt guns to remain competitive even with extended timings for the MD’s to enforce. Usually on an SR Rapid fire it’s 15 seconds; 5 shots , magazine change, 5 shots. For you ORA or Milo CQB’ers; the Rapid fire goes like 15 seconds; 5 shots left, magazine change, 5 shots right figure 11. That’s 15 seconds for AR rigs. With the Rangers and other bolt gun shooters, we gave them 30 seconds.

Hardware/Rifles

I’m pushing customers (remember, it’s my business forum; my rules.... ha ha ha ha. ) into platforms with magazine systems that are proven to work. I’m thinking of AICS magazines and AR magazines (for now).

Consider the Ruger American Ranch for around $ 750, it comes with a 16.5” barrel and feeds from AR magazines. Many of you SR and CQB types have a significant supply of proven (allows magazine security with the bolt forward and round chambered into a 5 & 1 situation)

Consider a Mossberg (dare I suggest this?) MVP which allows feeding from a magazine

Consider a Remmy M700 upgraded with an MDT LSS carbine buttstock allowing many different (6 positions) buttstock lengths. And then you can have a reliable AICS feed system from Accurate Magazine (that’s what I’m using) or MDT Tac 10 round polymer .223 magazines
I’m choosing the Magpul Hunter stock because I happen to really like their AICS magazine feeding systems. Okay, I’ll just have to remove the buttstock spacers (very slowly) to accommodate my body armour/plates.

Consider the Savage Hog Hunter.... help me out here/there: Proprietary magazines in 4 rounds only?

Consider the Ruger American....in Magpul Hunter stock?

I believe MDT Tac makes the LSS for the Winchester Model 70 push feed versions and the Savage and Ruger American models.


Anyways, we have many opinions and many solutions for this game. We have many fan boys from various platforms. Bring on the discussions.....

Adversity Into Advantage!!

Cheers, Barney

[TacticalTeacher]

Reserved for my pictures....

[TacticalTeacher]

My age old complaint with Remmy SPS Rifles was that their barrels only came factory twisted in 12”. That’s annoying since my AR’s from the get go loved the 68 gr Hornady and 69 gr SMK. I’ve won many medals with these booolits

My current SPS Tac in Bravo KRG has a 9” barrel, but that ‘s too onerous to run around the SR and CQB fields with

My also current SPS Remmy 700 .223 is seated in a Magpul Hunter stock and I have had success launching Remingto 62 grain Match booolits from Epps at $21.99 / 100 slugs.

Minor speed bumps along the way.....


Cheers, Barney

[Komodo]

OK but if we continue with the competitions with bolt guns wont the liberals say see you don't need AR's for sports shooting. I think it would be better to cancel all shooting events where the AR would normally be used to show it has impacted sports shooting. Instead of adapting to Trudeau's rules

[bollox]

OK but if we continue with the competitions with bolt guns wont the liberals say see you don't need AR's for sports shooting. I think it would be better to cancel all shooting events where the AR would normally be used to show it has impacted sports shooting. Instead of adapting to Trudeau's rules

That would work if they cared.

They don’t.

[tiriaq]

Komodo - the powers that be know that the basic SR CoF has been shot for about 100 years, with whatever rifles were in use at the time. It is demonstrable fact that the AR has been used for decades in this competition. That is proof of its use in competition. Not only has it been used, it is a superior rifle for the competition.

I put together a SR rig some time ago.
R700 action, Savage .223 1-9 sporter weight barrel, mustache pulling M4 type stock. Bushnell 6500 2-8 scope. In a MDT LSS chassis. Retains most of the handling features of an AR. Shoots 69gr SMKs well enough to be competitive.
When I fitted the Savage barrel, I cut 1-16 threads over top of the 1-20 Savage threads, leaving enough Savage threads for the barrel nut. Sounds awful, worked fine. Barrel breech face counterbored for Remingon bolt, headspace adjusted. I've mounted a gilled brake. Rifle just lies there, goes bang.

[chrisco]

Tagged for interest.

Shoot straight - chrisco

[steamy teabag]

Tagged.

[DT741]

About an SKS match ?

2 categories: stock config with stripper clips and the tacticool category

Most people already own one or ten SKSs so it doesn’t require an additional purchase of a rifle.

Also, CoF can easily be adjusted for Pistol only CQB matches.

Valcartier’s ranges are closed until August 31st so the season is basically done, but Pistol only match and SKS match would be what I’d be working towards if we could have matches this summer in order to have full matches.


Cheers

[w squared]

I like the Ruger American suggestion - they are super cost effective. Another possibility would be a Ruger "Gunsite Scout" in .223 - they have access to very good factory 3, 5, ad 10 round magazines.