Sterling Arms TR Receivers

[TSE JR]

Agree. There is a noticeable quality difference between the two sets, as well as ATRS uses higher grade aluminium.

At the end of the day though, I kinda wish a bunch of other Canadian manufacturers started making copies as well through a licensing agreement or something. I wish these sets were as common as the 10/22 in this country.

As discussed a loooooooong time ago. I asked Rick if he wanted to license it and he simply said no. It was his business decision.

As to it being "sub-par"... I'm curious how you came to this conclusion. The ATRS MS is a solid product, but the SAI is no slouch either. As to the ATRS choice of aluminum: The jury is still out on that one. T6061 and T7075 are different beasts and have different properties. I still believe it is better to use the 6061 (as long as it is hard anodized and not simply cerakoted) in the AR15 design as an over pressure will more likely result in a "bulge", not a "shatter". Again, preference, not "sub-par" or lower grade.

On top of that: Over 500 went out the door with very little issue. For that alone, I am very happy.

If the RCMP lab actually did their job and followed their published timelines, I would have had my own design out on the market a long time before the ban and this conversation would be mute. I am still waiting for that specific FRT (eye roll) as well as a number of others. I did share this info with Rick to demonstrate that producing the MS was not the preferred route. Again... I spoke with Rick before I proceeded. He declined my offer. Given his product was public domain, this was not something I even had to do, but I felt it was the right thing to do.

I do not regret copying the MS but it wasn't the plan. But we committed with the machine shop for hours and materials and it looked like the clock was running out. If I did not make the decision I did; instead of getting a small return, I would have taken a huge financial loss and be sitting on a pallet of 6061 aluminum blocks.... and there are now 500 more rifles out there!

From my perspective; Rick did and still is reaping some pretty significant rewards and his order book was already full.

In the end: The SAI MS took zero orders away from Rick. In my mind, this is the best outcome for everyone.

[rifleman762]

The reason TSE was able to undercut ATRS with their own design is because the cost of patenting a design intended for such a limited market isnt really economical as I understand it after talking with Rick.

A patent isn't a sure thing. You can only patent something that A) serves a useful functional purpose and B) Is new under the sun.

If ATRS had applied for a patent, it wouldn't be for the entire MS design. It would be for specific design features that function differently from any other firearm in the past.

Not everything is patentable; it's a pretty narrow form of IP, unlike copyright and trademark.

I'm not a patent attorney but I've used their services in the past. I have a grand total of one patent to my name ;-).

[onetwentyish]

As discussed a loooooooong time ago. I asked Rick if he wanted to license it and he simply said no. It was his business decision.

That doesn't mean he was remotely happy about the situation, just that he didn't want anything to do with you, which frankly was probably a smart move as I doubt you were offering sweet eff all since you were not required too anyways. Attaching the TSE name to ATRS would only serve to de-value the brand and product line considering the past.

As to it being "sub-par"... I'm curious how you came to this conclusion. The ATRS MS is a solid product, but the SAI is no slouch either. As to the ATRS choice of aluminum: The jury is still out on that one. T6061 and T7075 are different beasts and have different properties. I still believe it is better to use the 6061 (as long as it is hard anodized and not simply cerakoted) in the AR15 design as an over pressure will more likely result in a "bulge", not a "shatter". Again, preference, not "sub-par" or lower grade.

On top of that: Over 500 went out the door with very little issue. For that alone, I am very happy.

The comments are more with regard to overall finish quality, finishing machining and anodizing. I will give props and say that I considered it better than the MDI's I had seen.

If the RCMP lab actually did their job and followed their published timelines, I would have had my own design out on the market a long time before the ban and this conversation would be mute. I am still waiting for that specific FRT (eye roll) as well as a number of others. I did share this info with Rick to demonstrate that producing the MS was not the preferred route. Again... I spoke with Rick before I proceeded. He declined my offer. Given his product was public domain, this was not something I even had to do, but I felt it was the right thing to do.

I do not regret copying the MS but it wasn't the plan. But we committed with the machine shop for hours and materials and it looked like the clock was running out. If I did not make the decision I did; instead of getting a small return, I would have taken a huge financial loss and be sitting on a pallet of 6061 aluminum blocks.... and there are now 500 more rifles out there!

I definitely think you made the right decision for both your business and consumers now that we know how the ban came to be. One certainly can't fault you there, and it was commendable that you did try to reach out to Rick and offer him a taste when you were not required too. Kudoos for the olive branch.

From my perspective; Rick did and still is reaping some pretty significant rewards and his order book was already full.

In the end: The SAI MS took zero orders away from Rick. In my mind, this is the best outcome for everyone.

I mostly agree with this statement, however it is important to note that "this being the best outcome for everyone" was entirely dependent on the ban happening before ATRS was able to catch up on their orders. Fortunately you made the right decision givens what we know now.

[TSE JR]

I think everyone was able to get in their 2 cents and I'm going to close this thread as it will serve no purpose other than to try to create a rift in the community that is not needed right now.

If anyone wants to discuss this with me, send a PM oar email me at: jr@theshootingedge.com

Cheers,

JR