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Thread: Jard J180 Builds

  1. #21
    Member The Crover's Avatar
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    Range report! The results are...a mixed bag.



    Parts list in case anyone is wondering:

    - JARD J180 builder kit
    - Faxom SOCOM profile 20" 5.56 NATO barrel
    - BCM MCMR 13" handguard
    - Some fancy low profile gas block
    - Basic bítch A2 flash hidder
    - BCM carbine buffer tube
    - Magpul MOE carbine stock
    - Magpul MOE 0.5" cheek riser
    - AimPoint PRO
    - Meprolight MX3 x3 magnifier

    The gun did not run out of the box reliably. Many many many issues out of the box:

    - Failure to feed
    - Failure to fire
    - Failure to eject
    - Failure to lock open on empty mag

    Gun had gotten as much of the packing oil/grease/gunk wiped off before assembling and was shot mostly dry without any gun oil (I don't throw oil in a gun unless necessary).

    Ammo used was a combination of 55 gr FMJ Chinese 5.56 surplus and PMC .223. There seemed to be better reliability with the PMC ammo but it is hard to say.

    The first 100 rounds or so were pretty disappointing, but as more rounds were shot the gun seemed to function better and better. On the 120th round the action actually locked open on an empty mag!

    At the end of a 220 round shooting session, the FTFeed/FTFire/FTE/FTLO issued diminished or went away mostly. I can report the gun functions with the following magazines:

    - Magpul 30/5 round Pmag (not sure which generation)
    - Cross Mag 10 round for LAR-15
    - Thermold PLR16 10 round mag for LAR-15

    Hera H3 mags did not work, they could not be inserted in far enough to engage the mag catch.

    Speaking about mag insertions, take a look at this:



    The red arrows are pointing to 2 screws that are set onto the side of the receiver, which jut out into the inside of the receiver. Care to guess what they're for? Mag overinsertion stops. Yes. Those screws stop mags from being overinserted. No, I am not BSing you. If you insert a mag and give in it a smack to make sure it is seated all the way, these lovely little screws proceed to gouge the top of the mag body near the feed lips. At least they don't actually damage the feed lips. The screws are very small hex heads and are very tight/thread locked, making removal difficult so I only tried it once before destroying a hex bit and giving up. I don't know if they are critical to the function of the rifle, as I suspect the mag catch and the stops on the mags themselves would keep the mags from being overinserted.

    Another interesting bit about the rifle is what brass bounces off when ejected.



    Did you guess the charging handle? Cuz I didn't, not till I got home and noticed there were no brass marks on the receiver (I'm talking about you, WK-180!). However the charging handle is nice and bronzed now, it is made of steel so it doesn't look like there is damage on it just a snazzy brass coating. Brass ejects roughly in the 2 o'clock direction with a very soft recoil impulse. Not sure if more breaking in is needed or if the charging handle/brass deflector just sends brass in that direction.

    How about performance? How does it shoot? After it was done breaking in, it did shoot both the Norinco 5.56 surplus and PMC .223 well. Keep in mind I was using the AimPoint PRO, a 3-4 MOA dot, along with a x3 magnifier which did cause the dot to bloom slightly. Rifle was shot from a bench with a front rest and rear bag. Here are some 3.25 and 4 MOA groups at 100 m:



    Here is a 6.5" (3.25 MOA) group at 200 m:



    One caveat regarding takedown for cleaning is if you have a cheek riser on the stock, the guiderods and springs cannot be removed as the riser is in the way. Removing the stock lets your take the gun apart for cleaning easily.

    Overall, I'm surprised the gun needed breaking in. Frankly I always assumed "breaking in" a gun was fuddlore and never bothered with any gun that didn't run out of the box reliably. At 220 rounds the gun is working far better than initially, not sure if it was in need of "breaking in" or if I should have added some oil here and there. Next is adding a proper scope with some magnification to get a better sense of accuracy.

    Thank you for reading my range reports!
    The Abomin870!

  2. #22
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    Thanks for the info! After 220 rounds, I wonder if something just wore in nicely, or is the gun being "lubricated" by residue? I am curious how dirty the receiver is, given the direct gas injection into the receiver; there's not even the vents of a Stoner pseudo DI system.

  3. #23
    Uber Super GunNutz AbHobbyist's Avatar
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    The Crover

    Thank you for sharing, and I am very glad you got you rifle working in the end.

    Auto loader have a lot of moving parts, especially sporting style and a proper break-in period is not unheard of

    Gun had gotten as much of the packing oil/grease/gunk wiped off before assembling and was shot mostly dry without any gun oil (I don't throw oil in a gun unless necessary).
    Respectfully I will have to disagree with you here.

    This rifle uses a direct impingement gas system, akin to an AR. I have found that ALL AR’s (small and large frame) with a direct impingement gas system run better well lubricated.

    I have found that the carbon from the gas combine with the oil/grease form a kind of “slurry” that keep things moving well!!.

    I usually subscribe to the old adage -> grease it if it slides, oil it if it pivots!!

    I tend to use a combination of Dillon blue grease in a syringe on the carrier and then spray the entire BCG down with G-96.

    It will be interesting to see if the J180 functions/reacts to such a lubrication regime in a similar manor.

    Regards

    AbH

  4. #24
    Member The Crover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post

    Thanks for the info! After 220 rounds, I wonder if something just wore in nicely, or is the gun being "lubricated" by residue? I am curious how dirty the receiver is, given the direct gas injection into the receiver; there's not even the vents of a Stoner pseudo DI system.
    Receiver, BCG, and bolt had a light layer of carbon residue when I took it apart after the range trip. Wiped off with just an oily rag. The action is noticeably smoother now than when first assembled, some stuff might have smoothed out.
    The Abomin870!

  5. #25
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    CGN Member MarathonMan asked me to help him post pictures of how he attached his A2 stock to the Jard J180, which are below, along with his impressions.

    Quote Originally Posted by marathonman
    Hi, I am the fellow that installed an A2 stock on his Jard receiver. All that I did was thread my buffer tube all of the way in so that the flared end bottomed out against the receiver, ground off the small dimple off of the stock that was originally put there to keep the stock from rotating, put the stock over the buffer tube and tightened the screw into the buffer tube to hold the stock in place. Not challenging at all. My original plan was to score the buffer tube and the inside of the stock then gorilla glue or urethane it in place. Because I marked up the buffer tube while tightening it in with a pipe wrench, this seems to have enough of a profile to help keep the stock from rotating and I was actually surprised how well it worked out. I do plan on making a wood stock and boring it out so that it sits like the original stock did but will have to remove the stock for maintenance purposes. The stock currently does sit lower than I would like and am going to have to remove a bit of material around the back of the trigger guard but for now, I am going to put a cheek riser on it and go run some rounds through it.

    I did put a 2 inch long by 1 wide strip of hockey tape on the buffer tube before reinstalling the stock and a person would really have to torque on it to get any movement. The rifle may be fugly to some and it will be a work in progress for the next while but I am going to enjoy using my new non-restricted semi auto firearm that I can take anywhere that I want to for as long as I can.


    Full Sized Version -> https://i.imgur.com/bWX5j4c.jpg


    Full Sized Version -> https://i.imgur.com/r548qGr.jpg


    Full Sized Version -> https://i.imgur.com/mTEy4Jf.jpg


    Full Sized Version -> https://i.imgur.com/MehtiiZ.jpg


    Full Sized Version -> https://i.imgur.com/GKFykkS.jpg


    Full Sized Version -> https://i.imgur.com/R1QTA1b.jpg

  6. #26
    Super GunNutz
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    Man, if you could only rotate that stock somehow,

  7. #27
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    Just a note, if you do use lubricant on the J180, you may need to refresh it more often then a piston 180. Please note the following quote from the Direct Impingement Wikipedia page:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    A further disadvantage of direct impingement is that combustion gases heat the bolt and bolt carrier as the firearm operates. This heating causes essential lubricant to be "burned off". Lack of proper lubrication is the most common cause of weapon malfunctions. These combined factors reduce service life of these parts, reliability, and mean time between failures.
    However, someone else either on CGN or Reddit speculated that the J180 may be a Stoner-like expanding gas system rather then true direct impingement, due to the bolt having piston ring. Looking at a still I pulled of the BCG from the Jard disassembly video, there is two holes which may be vents like those found on an AR-15 BCG (as highlighted by the red arrow I added).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jard
    If this is the case, fouling buildup and lubricant drying inside the receiver should be minimal. Can someone who has a J180 check if the hole in the top of the BCG that receives the gas nozzle is blind hole, or sprays out air thorough the holes in the side of the BCG, using compressed air? My thanks to anyone who tries this.

  8. #28
    Member The Crover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Can someone who has a J180 check if the hole in the top of the BCG that receives the gas nozzle is blind hole, or sprays out air thorough the holes in the side of the BCG, using compressed air? My thanks to anyone who tries this.
    It is a Stoner gas piston, those holes are vent holes for excess gas.
    The Abomin870!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Crover View Post
    It is a Stoner gas piston, those holes are vent holes for excess gas.
    Thanks! Although a true direct impingement would have been cool from a Forgotten Weapons-style of unique weapon point if view, using the Stoner pseudo-piston gas system means cleanup should be no worse then on an AR-15 or AR-10, with most of the exhaust coming out vent holes when the BCG is adjacent to the ejection port, rather then into the receiver.

  10. #30
    Member The Crover's Avatar
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    Small update, AR-15 safeties will drop in completely unmodified.



    Seekins Precision ambi safety works perfectly on the 60° throw setting.
    The Abomin870!

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