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Thread: The R18 Mk2 Review Pt 2 Live Fire Reliabllity and Accuracy Results

  1. #321
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    The accuracy seems quite reasonable for a rifle of its type, the reliability thus far on the prototype is also good. We are being squeezed out of existence by an unfriendly government which has managed to get re-elected because we are fragmented and divided. I look through this string and think, this is why we are where we are; everyone complaining about how something isn't good enough--it's not as accurate as a Swissarms (banned), it's not as ergonomic or accurate or reliable as an AR15 (banned, and constantly improved over 50 years), etc etc. I say massive kudos to a Canadian company willing to take a leap of faith and put time, money, and sweat into designing and manufacturing a local option for Canadian gun owners. If you think of the risks for ANY company (TSE, Wolverine, Kodiak, etc) taking something like this on in this political climate, they are huge. It would be far easier for these companies to say, "not worth it" and not bother trying. For myself, if I have the money when these rifles come available, I will gladly shell out for one even if I hardly have time to go to the range with it. It will be worth it just to buy Canadian and I can then try it out side by side with my WS-MCR, another Canadian venture, and have two guns the government can just try to take away from me without compensation. I think the company has done a good job trying to bring a product to market that fits in the narrow niche which is still legal in this country. Thank you also to "Bartok5" for an amazing and articulate review.

    That said, I will be interested to see how the production unit looks compared to the prototype, and what the reviews are one it is in the hands of the average Joe; the people who have the time to go to the range and put a few thousand rounds through one will certainly find the inevitable weak points, but those will be able to be corrected. All of these projects end up being works in constantly changing progress.
    Last edited by boltaction; 12-07-2021 at 01:29 AM.
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  2. #322
    CGN Regular Jacobean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartok5 View Post
    Curious as to what constitutes "showing one's colours"?
    Never underestimate the abuse consumers will distill upon their purchases haha. I've seen countless items come to market across varying focuses (firearms, automotive, clothing/accessories) and no matter how much testing or full proofing companies think they do, the true test happens when massed produced versions fall into the hands of the best and worst of us!

    Happy it's seen 1000 rnds unscathed. But frankly 1000 is low on only 1 single QC test rifle as far as I'm concerned (although the other rifle has had a good run too, which is promising). Less for mechanical soundness, but more for long term reliability and wear & tear. Someone doing off shelf ammo testing could reasonably shoot 200 in a day (I know, I've done it) and avid shooters practicing drills can likely get close in a week or two. Not disparaging you personally, I get it; ammo is pricey now! Happy to be working through my 40-50 cent 1000rnd boxes only now while it sits at 70+ now. But the first summer of these being on the market will be the best stress test this product will ever get, by those willing/wanting to be the firsts.

    Obviously the R18 will never see battle. But it will be torture tested to replace every prohibited or too expensive rifle of owners willing to buy it, like any other gun. But that was a point for reliability and cost of competing price bracket rifles; something that, regardless of how much anyone can try and differentiate them, will be dead center of every consumers question across CGN, reddit, and other forums when it goes on sale and people want the best bang for their buck.. or 2600 of them. Certainly scratches the AR mechanics itch though. And I think we're all proud and happy it's Canadian.

  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartok5 View Post
    Curious as to what constitutes "showing one's colours"?
    So far we have:

    - 2 x test models
    - 0 x mass production models
    - 1 x person who has ever publicly discussed firing the gun and who knows the owner (that's not a negative thing against you but we have to acknowledge the relationship because when it's just one person saying the rifle is great and they happen to know the producer on a personal level then as a customer no matter how much you say you've been unbiased I have to consider the fact that perhaps you have unknowingly been biased)
    - circa 1000 rounds down range

    This rifle, in photos looks good but we really don't have enough information to say "this rifle is X". The rifle is new, really new and a huge amount changes between prototype and production. Design failures and material failures often take time to occur, this is why a several thousand round count is important.

    So until the first 1000 have rolled off the line and there are rifles out there with round counts in the several thousands and more than one reviewer has looked at the rifle we really haven't seen it's true colours.

    Please don't take the above as a negative or nasty comment, I really do hope the best for it because I want one and I want what is best for the Canadian market. But all that is irrelevant in relation to how much we've actually seen of the rifle.

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by boltaction View Post
    The accuracy seems quite reasonable for a rifle of its type, the reliability thus far on the prototype is also good. We are being squeezed out of existence by an unfriendly government which has managed to get re-elected because we are fragmented and divided. I look through this string and think, this is why we are where we are; everyone complaining about how something isn't good enough--it's not as accurate as a Swissarms (banned), it's not as ergonomic or accurate or reliable as an AR15 (banned, and constantly improved over 50 years), etc etc. I say massive kudos to a Canadian company willing to take a leap of faith and put time, money, and sweat into designing and manufacturing a local option for Canadian gun owners. If you think of the risks for ANY company (TSE, Wolverine, Kodiak, etc) taking something like this on in this political climate, they are huge. It would be far easier for these companies to say, "not worth it" and not bother trying. For myself, if I have the money when these rifles come available, I will gladly shell out for one even if I hardly have time to go to the range with it. It will be worth it just to buy Canadian and I can then try it out side by side with my WS-MCR, another Canadian venture, and have two guns the government can just try to take away from me without compensation. I think the company has done a good job trying to bring a product to market that fits in the narrow niche which is still legal in this country. Thank you also to "Bartok5" for an amazing and articulate review.

    That said, I will be interested to see how the production unit looks compared to the prototype, and what the reviews are one it is in the hands of the average Joe; the people who have the time to go to the range and put a few thousand rounds through one will certainly find the inevitable weak points, but those will be able to be corrected. All of these projects end up being works in constantly changing progress.
    33 pages, and this so far is the best post I've seen. If we could all afford to, I'd say we buy 1 of every Canadian produced rifle just to support these local manufacturers and accept each product for what it is (or will evolve to become).

  5. #325
    CGN Regular Ceiferiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacobean View Post
    Never underestimate the abuse consumers will distill upon their purchases haha.
    You joke but the first thing I do with every semiauto I buy is to throw it into my local swamp for a bit and see how they run after with the only cleaning action done being to insure the barrel isnt plugged or obstructed. Why ? Because its my gun damnit!

  6. #326
    Super GunNutz Bartok5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FraserGreen View Post
    So until the first 1000 have rolled off the line and there are rifles out there with round counts in the several thousands and more than one reviewer has looked at the rifle we really haven't seen it's true colours.
    If everyone takes your "wait and see" approach we will never get there.
    Mark C

  7. #327
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    I think there's enough pent enough demand for a high quality Canadian made firearm that there will be plenty of early adopters as soon as the RS18 is released. Given Bartok5's initial tests, I suspect the RS18 will work well for them, and with that evidence the more skeptical will also make the purchase. Hopefully the maker's will release the pencil barrel version before Christmas, so that it can be under the tree for those who want a gift for themselves and/or their loved one

  8. #328
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    Bartok5, maybe I missed it, but is there a release date or preorder for these yet? Very interested.

  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartok5 View Post
    If everyone takes your "wait and see" approach we will never get there.
    And if you'd reviewed a well made prototype of the original WK180C and only put a 1000 rounds through it you might have thought it was a well made excellent rifle and told us all to buy it. That wouldn't have gone down so well when the production models came out and with many many issues, the production model showed it's colours.

    I wonder if any other rifles were claimed by manufacturers to be great but only after a good number had been sold did issues be discovered, lets see:

    Type 81 - arrived bent, wobbly pistol grips and a couple other issues
    WK180C - Breaking cocking handles, pistons, loose gas screws, unstaked castle nuts etc
    WS-MCR - 3D printed parts that broke easily, quick to break retaining pin, sharp edges
    RSQ1 - Serious customer relations issues
    KELTC SU16 - The rear receiver breaking off
    M+M M10X - Too many issues to write down in one hour
    Bushmaster ACR DMR - Loose QD barrel
    B&T APC - Light primer strikes and another issue or two

    Instead of skipping past all the points made by Boltlocation & myself you could have recognised those points and said something like:

    - A production rifle(s) might/will be sent out to others to review to provide more varied feedback
    - My reviewing will continue to a round count of X has been achieved
    - That's fair enough I understand your view based on the limited information available to you

    You've made a LOT of positive posts about this rifle, and that's great but when presented with factual information about the limitations of what potential customers have to judge the rifle by that you could have acknowledged you instead you used a dismissive one liner.
    Last edited by FraserGreen; 12-07-2021 at 05:24 PM.

  10. #330
    Super GunNutz Bartok5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carby91 View Post
    Bartok5, maybe I missed it, but is there a release date or preorder for these yet? Very interested.
    There will be no pre-orders. Once production rifles are made available, The Shooting Edge and Target Sports will be the exclusive retailers. Rifles will be sold as they roll off the assembly line to the tune of several hundred per month. Given that adjustable Gas Blocks and Medium-Weight Barrels will not be available until early in the New Year, I would not expect retail sales before then. I could be wrong however, and it is possible that some Pencil-Barrelled rifles will be sold before then. Your best bet is to watch this thread, as I will announce any retail sales as soon as they are known.
    Mark C

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