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Thread: The R18 Mk2 Review Pt 2 Live Fire Reliabllity and Accuracy Results

  1. #351
    CGN Regular Jacobean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartok5 View Post
    As an aside, most of the PMC X-Tac that I have fired has been 55 gr, not 62 gr. All of the measured groups were fired with 55 gr PMC.
    My mistake!

    And absolutely, a couple 5 rnd groups arent an end all be all for sure. I love nothing more than shooting 5/10rnd x15+ groups all afternoon for accuracy identification.

  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartok5 View Post
    There is a useless troll in every thread, it seems. The down-side of CGN. Makes it difficult to hold an adult conversation with agenda-driven axe-grinders interjecting their utter nonsense. We do share one common thought however - 98/29 is a clearly a legend in his own mind....
    The amazing part... added to ignore list as that drivel was ridiculous and not warranted in this thread.

  3. #353
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    Well, Iíve been following and enjoying this thread (mostly). If we could keep to the topic at hand and skip the personal attacks that would be great.

    Seems like the next significant update is likely to be release details followed by owner reviews. Iím still interested in this rifle, particularly a lighter weight configuration.
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  4. #354
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer beltfed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartok5 View Post
    An AR180 Short-Stroke Piston operating system is very different from the AR15's DI system when it comes to accuracy potential. Given the heavier moving parts of the AR-180 Gas System, it stands to reason that they will degrade the natural accuracy potential of the rifle.
    I used to be of this mind, but my experience with the PE-90 / Sig Classic changed all of that.
    I know - apples / grapefruit to the AR-180b, however:

    Yesterday I took off a medium/heavy 20" Armalite Match barrel with 8" twist off one of my old service match rifles and spun it onto a buddy's WK-180 and converted it over to rifle length gas with the TNA rifle length piston.
    Today I had it out for a test fire and it printed all 10 rounds of that test ammo (AE XM-223) into 2" at 100m with a TA-31 w/ donut for an optic. I was positively blown over.
    I'm heading out tomorrow with a more suitable optic and a bunch of ammo to test.
    I'm half of the mind now, that as long as you float a good barrel (as would be applicable to an AR), these 180 clones will be as every bit as accurate as a D.I. AR (within reason of course.)
    Life Member CCFR and CSSA
    Posts made by the pseudonym "Beltfed" may not accurately reflect the beliefs and opinions of the Registered User.

  5. #355
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    Thanks for the review and pictures. Nice looking rifle and it's great to see all these new designs.

  6. #356
    Super GunNutz Bartok5's Avatar
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    I am pleased that some of you are actually enjoying the thread and the ability to help shape the R18 into its final production form. That was the entire point of my review - to get folks talking about the new rifles, their likes and dislikes - so that JR Cox and SAI would have feedback from a much broader audience than just myself as a volunteer tester/reviewer. I think that aim has been achieved in spades. I had a sit-down with JR at his Range/Retail Store today, as I happened to be in Calgary for the Ribbon-Cutting of a national, travelling Afghanistan Museum Exhibit the evening prior. In addition to the usual Army buddy back and forth, We had a solid discussion about the R18 and its (hopefully) future development.

    Only 4 IBI Barrels have been ordered for accuracy testing in various Barrel weights. This was a stop-gap to give the rifle testers barrels to work with whlle revised in-house Barrels are manufactured. The basic specifications listed in Part 1 of my Review (Air-Gauged, Stress-Relieved, etc) will of course, apply to the revised in-house Barrels. The difference is that the new Barrels will be 2/10" thicker in diameter between the Chamber and the Gas Block, and will then be heavily fluted throughout that same area. The result is a stiffer Barrel with a thicker profile and increased surface cooling area, but that weighs only 4 oz more than the current "Pencil Barrel". Combined with the reduced-profile Adjustable Gas Block, the stiffer Barrel ought to eliminate (or at least minimize) Gas Block contact with the Handguard. The revised in-house Barrel will also be dimpled for the Gas Block Screws, thus precluding any movement of the Gas Block once the screws are torqued and thread-locked.

    The original AR180 Operating Springs are with the spring sub-contractor for replication. The original springs were both thicker and longer than the enhanced R18 Operating Springs, and the duplicates will be adopted for all production rifles.

    The most exciting news is that a very limited number of "Pencil Barrelled" R18 Mk2s with fixed Gas Blocks (basically, the same Rifle as my Tester) will be sold as early as next week. People who have called The Shooting Edge and requested a Pencil Barrel rifle will be called on a first-come, first-served basis and offered one of those rifles. If somebody has changed their mind, then that rifle will go to the next person on the list. There are only approximately 40 "Pencil Barrel" R18s that wil be sold in this limited pre-production batch. The rifles will be sold on the understanding that when the production Charging Handles (going to all-Steel construction) and Adjustable Gas Blocks are available, an "Upgrade Kit" will be automatically mailed out to the "Pencil-Barrel" rifle owners. If you simply cannot wait and are interested in a "Pencil Barrel" R18 before Christmas, then call TSE and get your name on the list ASAP.

    The Adjustable Steel Gas Block will initially be a 2-screw affair, with a Gas Adjustment Screw and a Set Screw (to secure the Gas Adjustment Screw). Knowing that people's preference is for a rotary Gas Plug *(like the SIG 550) or Adjustment Sleeve (FN FAL), JR Cox intends to design a Tool-Less Adjustable Gas Block. Right now, he is leaning towards an FN FAL-type approach with a rotary sleeve that increasingly covers (or uncovers) a Gas Vent, but he is wide open (no pun intended!) to ideas. Design simplicity will be key, as will be minimal additional machining time.

    Production R18 Mk2s with the Medium-weight Fluted Barrel, Steel Charging Handle and Adjustible Gas Block uppgrades will be ready for sale early in the New Year. When I have a firm date for the R18 Mk2 launch I will immediately post it here. My testing and review process will most likely end once I conduct accuracy testing with the revised Production Fluted Barrel.

    Those are the highlights of today's discussion. I really enjoyed the opportunity while at TSE to handle and inspect earlier iterations of key R18 components as part of a "behind the scenes" tour of the faciity. I must say, that was pretty cool!

    Oh - a piece of firearms trivia for you: I was able to confirm that Sterling Arms International is the same hereditary family that owned and operated Sterling Arms Limited at Dagenham, UK. They manufactured all of the Sterling L2A3 submachineguns in UK service and produced the 1980s AR-180 under license from Armalite. They moved away from firearms manufacture when the UK went crazy with anti-firearms legislation, but are now looking to break back into the international market for both civiian sporting rifles as well as the Law Enforcement and Defence markets. The civilian market for firearms in the European Union has recently exploded with some countries significantly loosening their civiian firearms laws.

    That's about it for now. I will continue to rack up the round-count on the primary Test Rifle between now and Christmas, by which time the limited batch of "Pencil Barrel" pre-production rifles should be hitting the streets with owner feedback. If nothing else, that pre-production batch of rifles ought to give the discussion a shot in the arm once the new owners chime in with their own (hopefully positive) comments.
    Mark C

  7. #357
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    Thank you for the update, and working with maker to have them release the pencil editions first to give those craving the R18 a chance to purchase it as is, and still provide some of the upgrades when available.

    It sounds like the new barrels should be stiff enough to prevent the reasonance from rapid fire induces on the pencil barrel with the gas block on the end. That and the refining of the gas block design should be quite helpful. The dimpling of the barrel to index the gas block should help keep it in place in concert with the torqued and thread locked fasteners, helping prevent it rotating and torquing the piston into snapping. The makers may want to look at the adjustable gas system on the BRN-180 Gen 2; it too is readily adjustable.

  8. #358
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    Great news on making the barrels a bit heavier.
    The evolutionary improvements are moving along at light speed. Looking forward with further news!

  9. #359
    Member AskMeAboutMyBandcamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartok5 View Post
    I am pleased that some of you are actually enjoying the thread and the ability to help shape the R18 into its final production form. That was the entire point of my review - to get folks talking about the new rifles, their likes and dislikes - so that JR Cox and SAI would have feedback from a much broader audience than just myself as a volunteer tester/reviewer. I think that aim has been achieved in spades. I had a sit-down with JR at his Range/Retail Store today, as I happened to be in Calgary for the Ribbon-Cutting of a national, travelling Afghanistan Museum Exhibit the evening prior. In addition to the usual Army buddy back and forth, We had a solid discussion about the R18 and its (hopefully) future development.

    Only 4 IBI Barrels have been ordered for accuracy testing in various Barrel weights. This was a stop-gap to give the rifle testers barrels to work with whlle revised in-house Barrels are manufactured. The basic specifications listed in Part 1 of my Review (Air-Gauged, Stress-Relieved, etc) will of course, apply to the revised in-house Barrels. The difference is that the new Barrels will be 2/10" thicker in diameter between the Chamber and the Gas Block, and will then be heavily fluted throughout that same area. The result is a stiffer Barrel with a thicker profile and increased surface cooling area, but that weighs only 4 oz more than the current "Pencil Barrel". Combined with the reduced-profile Adjustable Gas Block, the stiffer Barrel ought to eliminate (or at least minimize) Gas Block contact with the Handguard. The revised in-house Barrel will also be dimpled for the Gas Block Screws, thus precluding any movement of the Gas Block once the screws are torqued and thread-locked.

    The original AR180 Operating Springs are with the spring sub-contractor for replication. The original springs were both thicker and longer than the enhanced R18 Operating Springs, and the duplicates will be adopted for all production rifles.

    The most exciting news is that a very limited number of "Pencil Barrelled" R18 Mk2s with fixed Gas Blocks (basically, the same Rifle as my Tester) will be sold as early as next week. People who have called The Shooting Edge and requested a Pencil Barrel rifle will be called on a first-come, first-served basis and offered one of those rifles. If somebody has changed their mind, then that rifle will go to the next person on the list. There are only approximately 40 "Pencil Barrel" R18s that wil be sold in this limited pre-production batch. The rifles will be sold on the understanding that when the production Charging Handles (going to all-Steel construction) and Adjustable Gas Blocks are available, an "Upgrade Kit" will be automatically mailed out to the "Pencil-Barrel" rifle owners. If you simply cannot wait and are interested in a "Pencil Barrel" R18 before Christmas, then call TSE and get your name on the list ASAP.

    The Adjustable Steel Gas Block will initially be a 2-screw affair, with a Gas Adjustment Screw and a Set Screw (to secure the Gas Adjustment Screw). Knowing that people's preference is for a rotary Gas Plug *(like the SIG 550) or Adjustment Sleeve (FN FAL), JR Cox intends to design a Tool-Less Adjustable Gas Block. Right now, he is leaning towards an FN FAL-type approach with a rotary sleeve that increasingly covers (or uncovers) a Gas Vent, but he is wide open (no pun intended!) to ideas. Design simplicity will be key, as will be minimal additional machining time.

    Production R18 Mk2s with the Medium-weight Fluted Barrel, Steel Charging Handle and Adjustible Gas Block uppgrades will be ready for sale early in the New Year. When I have a firm date for the R18 Mk2 launch I will immediately post it here. My testing and review process will most likely end once I conduct accuracy testing with the revised Production Fluted Barrel.

    Those are the highlights of today's discussion. I really enjoyed the opportunity while at TSE to handle and inspect earlier iterations of key R18 components as part of a "behind the scenes" tour of the faciity. I must say, that was pretty cool!

    Oh - a piece of firearms trivia for you: I was able to confirm that Sterling Arms International is the same hereditary family that owned and operated Sterling Arms Limited at Dagenham, UK. They manufactured all of the Sterling L2A3 submachineguns in UK service and produced the 1980s AR-180 under license from Armalite. They moved away from firearms manufacture when the UK went crazy with anti-firearms legislation, but are now looking to break back into the international market for both civiian sporting rifles as well as the Law Enforcement and Defence markets. The civilian market for firearms in the European Union has recently exploded with some countries significantly loosening their civiian firearms laws.

    That's about it for now. I will continue to rack up the round-count on the primary Test Rifle between now and Christmas, by which time the limited batch of "Pencil Barrel" pre-production rifles should be hitting the streets with owner feedback. If nothing else, that pre-production batch of rifles ought to give the discussion a shot in the arm once the new owners chime in with their own (hopefully positive) comments.
    Thanks for the update, Mark! Am I correct in assuming that the MK2 second production models will have the rear picatinny that goes a bit higher, to keep the same general line as our now prohibited guns?

  10. #360
    Super GunNutz Bartok5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AskMeAboutMyBandcamp View Post
    Thanks for the update, Mark! Am I correct in assuming that the MK2 second production models will have the rear picatinny that goes a bit higher, to keep the same general line as our now prohibited guns?
    Yes, the new production Lower Receivers will have the revised rear Picatinny Buttstock Rail with an additional setting at the top of the Rail. This will allow the user to place the top line of their Buttstock slightly above the recoil line of the Barrel and Bolt Carrier travel. This in turn, will greatly help to reduce muzzle rise when firing.
    Mark C

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