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Thread: The R18 Mk2 Review Pt 2 Live Fire Reliabllity and Accuracy Results

  1. #61
    Super GunNutz Bartok5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchCDN View Post
    And that is completely fair and I appreciate and understand what you are doing. However this is a review of a SAI with Triggertech trigger not a stock SAI. Thus the price of 2600 does not achieve the sub 2 MOA therefore a caveat must me placed on that data. Those are my only points and I believe whilst you make valid points so do I.

    Additionally I am interested in this rifle, I am not trying to be contrarian to others opinions. I just wanted to see if it was 3 MOA or less with the stock trigger and reliable as thatís all Iím concerned about. If it were I would leave the stock trigger in the firearm.
    Based entirey upon differing skill-sets, you may very well be able to wring 2 MOA out of the stock, mil-spec Trigger, whereas I cannot. But just because I cannot manage to shoot a mil-spec Trigger well, does that mean the rifle's accuracy ought to be condemned? THAT is the uncertainty and variability of results that adopting an easier to use aftermarket Trigger helps to eliminate.

    Is it an SAI R18 k2 with a TriggerTech installed for accuracy testing? Yes, as I have clearly and repeatedly stated. It is also an SAI with a Leupold Mk5 optic installed that the rifle does not ship stock with. It is also an SAI with a B5 SOPMOD Buttstock installed, which I personally prefer over the stock Magpul MOE. The R18 Mk2 also does not ship with Back-up Iron Sights, nor does the factory package include a Magpul Vertical Forward Grip and MLOK Sling Attachment Point. But I installed those additional accessories on the test rifle for my personal convenience. Does the presence of any of the above "add-ons" fundamentally compromise or alter the results of my user review? You evidently think that they do. My opinion differs. My review however, so my methods and rules.
    Mark C

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartok5 View Post
    Based entirey upon differing skill-sets, you may very well be able to wring 2 MOA out of the stock, mil-spec Trigger, whereas I cannot. But just because I cannot manage to shoot a mil-spec Trigger well, does that mean the rifle's accuracy ought to be condemned? THAT is the uncertainty and variability of results that adopting an easier to use aftermarket Trigger helps to eliminate.

    Is it an SAI R18 k2 with a TriggerTech installed for accuracy testing? Yes, as I have clearly and repeatedly stated. It is also an SAI with a Leupold Mk5 optic installed that the rifle does not ship stock with. It is also an SAI with a B5 SOPMOD Buttstock installed, which I personally prefer over the stock Magpul MOE. The R18 Mk2 also does not ship with Back-up Iron Sights, nor does the factory package include a Magpul Vertical Forward Grip and MLOK Sling Attachment Point. But I installed those additional accessories on the test rifle for my personal convenience. Does the presence of any of the above "add-ons" fundamentally compromise or alter the results of my user review? You evidently think that they do. My opinion differs. My review however, so my methods and rules.
    I simply requested a stock trigger accuracy test. I apologize if I have offended you that was not my intent. There is no need to explain your methods or anything of that nature as of course they were your testing protocol. Thank you again for your review and if no one wants to do a stock trigger review that is totally cool!

  3. #63
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Paul_T's Avatar
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    Interesting first posts in a vendor sub-forum. Another for the ignore list....
    "No matter where you go - there you are"
    Member: CCFR, CSSA, CPC

  4. #64
    Super GunNutz Bartok5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchCDN View Post
    I simply requested a stock trigger accuracy test. I apologize if I have offended you that was not my intent. There is no need to explain your methods or anything of that nature as of course they were your testing protocol. Thank you again for your review and if no one wants to do a stock trigger review that is totally cool!
    Not at all offended! Just trying to help you to understand why I did things the way that I did. It's all good!
    Mark C

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartok5 View Post
    Not at all offended! Just trying to help you to understand why I did things the way that I did. It's all good!
    Excellent and thank you…it makes sense to me and I appreciate the positive discussion. It is wonderful to be able to discuss things we are passionate about and enjoy without upsetting one another and in the process learn!

  6. #66
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer beltfed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSE JR View Post
    Attachment 538194

    In Bartok5's part 1, he did some pretty decent photos with the rifle disassembled.

    Beltfed.... here you go.

    JR
    I can see that profile not lending the rifle any favours in the accuracy department.

    Have you guys spun on a decent barrel with known accuracy potential just for giggles?

    Are you thinking .441" or other sized bolt faces for alternative calibers (or is it too early yet)?
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  7. #67
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    Truly appreciate the honest review, as well as the well thought out responses to peoples questions. From the review it would seem to me this was a real world setup for accuracy - instead of being bolted to a bench with almost zero human involvement, which IMHO is a false number that I know I will never personally hit. Nor do I care to, but I am sure some of you can - I go to enjoy and am happy to get a decent group if I can, with something of reasonable build and price - as stated by Bartok "the sweet spot"

    ok - back to counting the hidden pennies from the wife.

  8. #68
    Administrator greentips's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beltfed View Post
    I can see that profile not lending the rifle any favours in the accuracy department.

    Have you guys spun on a decent barrel with known accuracy potential just for giggles?

    Are you thinking .441" or other sized bolt faces for alternative calibers (or is it too early yet)?
    2" group with M855 is adequate. This is about the same with similar 18" AR in the same weight class or BRN180 seen around.

    There are two markets here, some people want a 7.5lb rifle , someone wants sub MOA rifles. You cannot please both worlds. Seriously, let these guy make the first run and add more variants down the road once the product stabilizes. At this stage, the manufacturer needs to finalize all the critical changes and so the production prototypes can be made to test the consistency of the production line output.

    Personally, it shows that fluting does nothing, and probably amplify any effect of stress in material induced during manufacturing. My suggestion is to get rid of that fluting - it adds an extra station to the barrel manufacturing and slows down through put. I know some people like the bling bling and it is a product differentiation move to create premium, but IMHO it is not worth it.

    I would rather money spent on making sure premium metallurgical quality in the vital parts - no one cares about fluting if BCG cracks and bolt lug shears, or things like push rod shearing, or extractor failure, cam pin shearing or retaining pin snapping. Make sure the manufacturing process is down and a jig is made so the gas block is always lined up true to the receiver, even if the installer is a monkey. Returns and recalls eat up profit quickly in small runs.


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  9. #69
    CGN frequent flyer Karnage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greentips View Post
    2" group with M855 is adequate. This is about the same with similar 18" AR in the same weight class or BRN180 seen around.

    There are two markets here, some people want a 7.5lb rifle , someone wants sub MOA rifles. You cannot please both worlds. Seriously, let these guy make the first run and add more variants down the road once the product stabilizes. At this stage, the manufacturer needs to finalize all the critical changes and so the production prototypes can be made to test the consistency of the production line output.

    Personally, it shows that fluting does nothing, and probably amplify any effect of stress in material induced during manufacturing. My suggestion is to get rid of that fluting - it adds an extra station to the barrel manufacturing and slows down through put. I know some people like the bling bling and it is a product differentiation move to create premium, but IMHO it is not worth it.

    I would rather money spent on making sure premium metallurgical quality in the vital parts - no one cares about fluting if BCG cracks and bolt lug shears, or things like push rod shearing, or extractor failure, cam pin shearing or retaining pin snapping. Make sure the manufacturing process is down and a jig is made so the gas block is always lined up true to the receiver, even if the installer is a monkey. Returns and recalls eat up profit quickly in small runs.
    Agree 100%.
    Fluting is meant for weight reduction and increased barrel surface area for cooling. Looking at the amount fluted on this barrel the weight reduction is barely discernible and cooling? Well, we're not going full auto here so...

  10. #70
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer beltfed's Avatar
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    ^ agreed on all points. I would say though that not only is 2" groupings adequate, it is accurately reflective of the vast majority of semi-autos on the market.
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