The R18 Mk2 Review Pt 2 Live Fire Reliabllity and Accuracy Results

Status
Not open for further replies.
The accuracy seems quite reasonable for a rifle of its type, the reliability thus far on the prototype is also good. We are being squeezed out of existence by an unfriendly government which has managed to get re-elected because we are fragmented and divided. I look through this string and think, this is why we are where we are; everyone complaining about how something isn't good enough--it's not as accurate as a Swissarms (banned), it's not as ergonomic or accurate or reliable as an AR15 (banned, and constantly improved over 50 years), etc etc. I say massive kudos to a Canadian company willing to take a leap of faith and put time, money, and sweat into designing and manufacturing a local option for Canadian gun owners. If you think of the risks for ANY company (TSE, Wolverine, Kodiak, etc) taking something like this on in this political climate, they are huge. It would be far easier for these companies to say, "not worth it" and not bother trying. For myself, if I have the money when these rifles come available, I will gladly shell out for one even if I hardly have time to go to the range with it. It will be worth it just to buy Canadian and I can then try it out side by side with my WS-MCR, another Canadian venture, and have two guns the government can just try to take away from me without compensation. I think the company has done a good job trying to bring a product to market that fits in the narrow niche which is still legal in this country. Thank you also to "Bartok5" for an amazing and articulate review.

That said, I will be interested to see how the production unit looks compared to the prototype, and what the reviews are one it is in the hands of the average Joe; the people who have the time to go to the range and put a few thousand rounds through one will certainly find the inevitable weak points, but those will be able to be corrected. All of these projects end up being works in constantly changing progress.
 
Last edited:
Bartok5 said:
Curious as to what constitutes "showing one's colours"?
Click to expand...

Never underestimate the abuse consumers will distill upon their purchases haha. I've seen countless items come to market across varying focuses (firearms, automotive, clothing/accessories) and no matter how much testing or full proofing companies think they do, the true test happens when massed produced versions fall into the hands of the best and worst of us!

Happy it's seen 1000 rnds unscathed. But frankly 1000 is low on only 1 single QC test rifle as far as I'm concerned (although the other rifle has had a good run too, which is promising). Less for mechanical soundness, but more for long term reliability and wear & tear. Someone doing off shelf ammo testing could reasonably shoot 200 in a day (I know, I've done it) and avid shooters practicing drills can likely get close in a week or two. Not disparaging you personally, I get it; ammo is pricey now! Happy to be working through my 40-50 cent 1000rnd boxes only now while it sits at 70+ now. But the first summer of these being on the market will be the best stress test this product will ever get, by those willing/wanting to be the firsts.

Obviously the R18 will never see battle. But it will be torture tested to replace every prohibited or too expensive rifle of owners willing to buy it, like any other gun. But that was a point for reliability and cost of competing price bracket rifles; something that, regardless of how much anyone can try and differentiate them, will be dead center of every consumers question across CGN, reddit, and other forums when it goes on sale and people want the best bang for their buck.. or 2600 of them. Certainly scratches the AR mechanics itch though. And I think we're all proud and happy it's Canadian.
 
Bartok5 said:
Curious as to what constitutes "showing one's colours"?
Click to expand...

So far we have:

- 2 x test models
- 0 x mass production models
- 1 x person who has ever publicly discussed firing the gun and who knows the owner (that's not a negative thing against you but we have to acknowledge the relationship because when it's just one person saying the rifle is great and they happen to know the producer on a personal level then as a customer no matter how much you say you've been unbiased I have to consider the fact that perhaps you have unknowingly been biased)
- circa 1000 rounds down range

This rifle, in photos looks good but we really don't have enough information to say "this rifle is X". The rifle is new, really new and a huge amount changes between prototype and production. Design failures and material failures often take time to occur, this is why a several thousand round count is important.

So until the first 1000 have rolled off the line and there are rifles out there with round counts in the several thousands and more than one reviewer has looked at the rifle we really haven't seen it's true colours.

Please don't take the above as a negative or nasty comment, I really do hope the best for it because I want one and I want what is best for the Canadian market. But all that is irrelevant in relation to how much we've actually seen of the rifle.
 
boltaction said:
The accuracy seems quite reasonable for a rifle of its type, the reliability thus far on the prototype is also good. We are being squeezed out of existence by an unfriendly government which has managed to get re-elected because we are fragmented and divided. I look through this string and think, this is why we are where we are; everyone complaining about how something isn't good enough--it's not as accurate as a Swissarms (banned), it's not as ergonomic or accurate or reliable as an AR15 (banned, and constantly improved over 50 years), etc etc. I say massive kudos to a Canadian company willing to take a leap of faith and put time, money, and sweat into designing and manufacturing a local option for Canadian gun owners. If you think of the risks for ANY company (TSE, Wolverine, Kodiak, etc) taking something like this on in this political climate, they are huge. It would be far easier for these companies to say, "not worth it" and not bother trying. For myself, if I have the money when these rifles come available, I will gladly shell out for one even if I hardly have time to go to the range with it. It will be worth it just to buy Canadian and I can then try it out side by side with my WS-MCR, another Canadian venture, and have two guns the government can just try to take away from me without compensation. I think the company has done a good job trying to bring a product to market that fits in the narrow niche which is still legal in this country. Thank you also to "Bartok5" for an amazing and articulate review.

That said, I will be interested to see how the production unit looks compared to the prototype, and what the reviews are one it is in the hands of the average Joe; the people who have the time to go to the range and put a few thousand rounds through one will certainly find the inevitable weak points, but those will be able to be corrected. All of these projects end up being works in constantly changing progress.
Click to expand...

33 pages, and this so far is the best post I've seen. If we could all afford to, I'd say we buy 1 of every Canadian produced rifle just to support these local manufacturers and accept each product for what it is (or will evolve to become).
 
Jacobean said:
Never underestimate the abuse consumers will distill upon their purchases haha.
Click to expand...

You joke but the first thing I do with every semiauto I buy is to throw it into my local swamp for a bit and see how they run after with the only cleaning action done being to insure the barrel isnt plugged or obstructed. Why ? Because its my gun damnit!
 
I think there's enough pent enough demand for a high quality Canadian made firearm that there will be plenty of early adopters as soon as the RS18 is released. Given Bartok5's initial tests, I suspect the RS18 will work well for them, and with that evidence the more skeptical will also make the purchase. Hopefully the maker's will release the pencil barrel version before Christmas, so that it can be under the tree for those who want a gift for themselves and/or their loved one :)
 
Bartok5 said:
If everyone takes your "wait and see" approach we will never get there.
Click to expand...

And if you'd reviewed a well made prototype of the original WK180C and only put a 1000 rounds through it you might have thought it was a well made excellent rifle and told us all to buy it. That wouldn't have gone down so well when the production models came out and with many many issues, the production model showed it's colours.

I wonder if any other rifles were claimed by manufacturers to be great but only after a good number had been sold did issues be discovered, lets see:

Type 81 - arrived bent, wobbly pistol grips and a couple other issues
WK180C - Breaking cocking handles, pistons, loose gas screws, unstaked castle nuts etc
WS-MCR - 3D printed parts that broke easily, quick to break retaining pin, sharp edges
RSQ1 - Serious customer relations issues
KELTC SU16 - The rear receiver breaking off
M+M M10X - Too many issues to write down in one hour
Bushmaster ACR DMR - Loose QD barrel
B&T APC - Light primer strikes and another issue or two

Instead of skipping past all the points made by Boltlocation & myself you could have recognised those points and said something like:

- A production rifle(s) might/will be sent out to others to review to provide more varied feedback
- My reviewing will continue to a round count of X has been achieved
- That's fair enough I understand your view based on the limited information available to you

You've made a LOT of positive posts about this rifle, and that's great but when presented with factual information about the limitations of what potential customers have to judge the rifle by that you could have acknowledged you instead you used a dismissive one liner.
 
Last edited:
Carby91 said:
Bartok5, maybe I missed it, but is there a release date or preorder for these yet? Very interested.
Click to expand...

There will be no pre-orders. Once production rifles are made available, The Shooting Edge and Target Sports will be the exclusive retailers. Rifles will be sold as they roll off the assembly line to the tune of several hundred per month. Given that adjustable Gas Blocks and Medium-Weight Barrels will not be available until early in the New Year, I would not expect retail sales before then. I could be wrong however, and it is possible that some Pencil-Barrelled rifles will be sold before then. Your best bet is to watch this thread, as I will announce any retail sales as soon as they are known.
 
FraserGreen said:
You've made a LOT of positive posts about this rifle, and that's great but when presented with factual information about the limitations of what potential customers have to judge the rifle by that you could have acknowledged you instead you used a dismissive one liner.
Click to expand...

I have done this review purely out of personal interest in the design and (as I disclosed right up-front) as a favour to a friend. I get nothing for my troubles, my fuel (1 hr each way to the range), my ammunition (some was donated), my time, etc, etc - except for a say in the final tweaking of the pre-production rifle so that my own production version doesn't (hopefully) suck. Are there limitations as to what I can tell you about the long-term durability of the R18? Sure. And I will be the first to admit that 1000 rounds does not constitute a long-term, high round-count review. Hey - you get what you pay for.

At the end of the day, I don't know you, and I don't owe you a thing. Like it or not, what I said was the truth. Without early adopters there will be no R18s on the Canadian market. Canadian firearms owners tend to talk a good game, but when it comes time to pry open their wallets they become the cheapest sons a B#$ches on the planet. And as far as I'm concerned that is a fact.

Yes, I am supportive of JR Cox's efforts to bring a new rifle to market. Yes, I appreciate the design of the R18 and would like to see it succeed on the Canadian market. No, I don't stand to make a dime off of the sales of the R18. So instead of berating me for being "dismissive' of your contributions, perhaps just sit back and enjoy the ride that is being presented to you free of charge....
 
Last edited:
On a positive note ...I’d like to see this new toy on the market....and would like to own one before those flipping corn holes (liberals take more away from us ).....own nothing and be happy .I. Trudeau
So I wish you folks out there who are trying to get this done
All the best working days ahead .....smooth sailing and no problems
AS I will be watching
The beat the credit card is going to take a beating....lol love it
Cheers to all
 
Bartok5 said:
I have done this review purely out of personal interest in the design and (as I disclosed right up-front) as a favour to a friend. I get nothing for my troubles, my fuel (1 hr each way to the range), my ammunition (some was donated), my time, etc, etc - except for a say in the final tweaking of the pre-production rifle so that my own production version doesn't (hopefully) suck. Are there limitations as to what I can tell you about the long-term durability of the R18? Sure. And I will be the first to admit that 1000 rounds does not constitute a long-term, high round-count review. Hey - you get what you pay for.

At the end of the day, I don't know you, and I don't owe you a thing. Like it or not, what I said was the truth. Without early adopters there will be no R18s on the Canadian market. Canadian firearms owners tend to talk a good game, but when it comes time to pry open their wallets they become the cheapest sons a B#$ches on the planet. And as far as I'm concerned that is a fact.

Yes, I am supportive of JR Cox's efforts to bring a new rifle to market. Yes, I appreciate the design of the R18 and would like to see it succeed on the Canadian market. No, I don't stand to make a dime off of the sales of the R18. So instead of berating me for being "dismissive' of your contributions, perhaps just sit back and enjoy the ride that is being presented to you free of charge....
Click to expand...

Kudos
 
Bartok5 said:
I have done this review purely out of personal interest in the design and (as I disclosed right up-front) as a favour to a friend. I get nothing for my troubles, my fuel (1 hr each way to the range), my ammunition (some was donated), my time, etc, etc - except for a say in the final tweaking of the pre-production rifle so that my own production version doesn't (hopefully) suck. Are there limitations as to what I can tell you about the long-term durability of the R18? Sure. And I will be the first to admit that 1000 rounds does not constitute a long-term, high round-count review. Hey - you get what you pay for.

At the end of the day, I don't know you, and I don't owe you a thing. Like it or not, what I said was the truth. Without early adopters there will be no R18s on the Canadian market. Canadian firearms owners tend to talk a good game, but when it comes time to pry open their wallets they become the cheapest sons a B#$ches on the planet. And as far as I'm concerned that is a fact.

Yes, I am supportive of JR Cox's efforts to bring a new rifle to market. Yes, I appreciate the design of the R18 and would like to see it succeed on the Canadian market. No, I don't stand to make a dime off of the sales of the R18. So instead of berating me for being "dismissive' of your contributions, perhaps just sit back and enjoy the ride that is being presented to you free of charge....
Click to expand...

Amen to that.
 
Bartok5 said:
If everyone takes your "wait and see" approach we will never get there.
Click to expand...

Yeah, instead we should spend our cash on your buddies pet project to milk the AR ban and bring yet another sub-par, overpriced hunk of cheaply made metal to the starving Canadian market.

Please.
 
98/29 said:
Yeah, instead we should spend our cash on your buddies pet project to milk the AR ban and bring yet another sub-par, overpriced hunk of cheaply made metal to the starving Canadian market.

Please.
Click to expand...

I stand by my original point - if nobody buys the R18 it will die on the "good ideas" pile and future designers will decide that production is not worth the trouble for the small Canadian market. It is really that simple.

But you are right, of course - My review has been a deliberate plot to separate you from your hard-earned cash by selling a "sub-par, overpriced hunk of cheaply made metal to the starving Canadian market". You've sure got us all figured out there Sherlock..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You are clearly an idiot with serious reading comprehension issues. Please go spew your nonsense elsewhere and leave those of us who wish to discuss the new rifle to that conversation.
 
Last edited:
Bartok5 said:
I stand by my original point - if nobody buys the R18 it will die on the "good ideas" pile and future designers will decide that production is not worth the trouble for the small Canadian market. It is really that simple.

But you are right, of course - My review has been a deliberate plot to separate you from your hard-earned cash by selling a "sub-par, overpriced hunk of cheaply made metal to the starving Canadian market". You've sure got us all figured out there Sherlock..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You are clearly an idiot with serious reading comprehension issues. Please go spew your nonsense elsewhere and leave those of us who wish to discuss the new rifle to that conversation.
Click to expand...

I'm glad I struck the right nerve there for you to come out with your juvenile retorts and schoolyard insults.

I have reading comprehension issues? Let's compare our credentials. Who are you? Where did you go to school? What are your qualifications?

I didn't say your review was a deliberate plot for anything. You're a nobody as far as I'm concerned. What you are is a "useful idiot" who's unintentionally serving someone else's agenda with your actions. And every time someone has called you out on it, you've come out barking like a rabid dog, frothing at the mouth with ad hominems. It is possible that perhaps you're doing it deliberately but I personally I don't think you've got enough computing power between those two bouncing brain cells of yours to pull it off.

You and your buddies "good ideas" can die on whatever hill you choose to. It's the executions that matters. IRG also has some good ideas, why are you in their threads talking nonsense? Aren't you for "good ideas"? Or do they only count when you get freebies to promote them? You and your buddies can pretend like you care about the community all you want but you won't fool anyone with above average IQ when all you are trying to make a quick buck.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, put down the thesaurus when you're writing a review on a gun. It only serves to add to it's pretentiousness.

You're pathetic.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom