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Thread: Cartridge did not go off

  1. #11
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Bigbubba's Avatar
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    So you had 3 light strikes that didnt go off
    All the rest went off correct?

    If it were me I would hang on to them and try them again in warmer weather
    If they still don't fire, just use a copper pipe cutter and cut the cartridge open and dump the powder on the garden....
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  2. #12
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Big Bad's Avatar
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    For starters, ammo makers have learned these days they can relax quality control these days, or eliminate it, and still sell ammo, so that could be the problem. Such rounds are generally called 'duds' (in the unedited version of this post I used the term 'squibs' but that is the term used for when the primer pops but the round itself doesn't go off. The term h'angfire' is more properly when the round goes off after a delay and yes they are quite dangerous, always take precautions when a round doesn't go off. Wait a bit and then unload carefully and keep in mind they could go off inside or outside the rifle, all the while protecting yourself and others. If you get a pop from a squib, keep in mind that the bullet may have been sent partway down the barrel by the pop from the primer, forming a dangerous obstruction.

    All that said, and while I have a problem understanding exactly how many makes of cartridge failed to fire, if it was multiple brands it does suggest your firearm was at fault. They do not always function normally in freezing cold unless you reduce the amount of oil and certainly grease that you might use in warm weather, that is likely the problem. However, you say the primers were dented on the squib rounds- was that as deeply as on the rounds that fired, or do they look like 'light strikes?'

    A decent range should have a specific box to put bad rounds in, they're not great to keep around. The only thing I can suggest is that without such access you take them to the store you where you bought them for safe disposal, make it their problem.
    Last edited by Big Bad; 01-18-2022 at 12:22 PM.
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  3. #13
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    Big Bad in post #12 raises an interesting point about primer strike - so is it the depth of the strike that counts, or the speed that the firing pin hit to make that dent? I know that I have used my reloading press and de-capping pin in a die, to press out unknown to me primers from someone else's handholds - so, I presume the primers were "hot" - but I was pressing slowly from the inside to push them out - I do not recall having to do that to an upside down primer - yet. I do not know if a primer can be dented with a slow "push" without firing, or if it also needs a "snap" to it, to fire? I see many of the military bolt actions that I work on have much longer firing pin travel, and much heavier firing pins, then what several of the commercial guns have. Does anyone know if "speed of impact" makes a difference whether a primer goes off or not, versus just depth of the "dent"??

  4. #14
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    Well - Speed of impact sure does have an effect. The firing pin builds up kinetic energy (1/2 mv^2) through its travel. It is this energy that creates the dent. More energy = more dent. Any viscous lube or grease in the firing pin channel can slow the firing pin and cause a mis-fire.
    OP - Suggest you clean the guts of the bolt. Save the mis-fired rounds for further testing after the clean.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic View Post
    Well - Speed of impact sure does have an effect. The firing pin builds up kinetic energy (1/2 mv^2) through its travel. It is this energy that creates the dent. More energy = more dent. Any viscous lube or grease in the firing pin channel can slow the firing pin and cause a mis-fire.
    OP - Suggest you clean the guts of the bolt. Save the mis-fired rounds for further testing after the clean.
    That makes sense. Thanks.

    Legacy got back to me this morning. He suggested looking for specs of something in around the bolt face or chamber. I did this and did not find too much, nothing that I would think would be a problem, however, nothing to say that upon my last eject cycle, something did not dislodge and fall out. I did disassemble the bolt and found, what I thought would be excessive oil, but not like it was running out. But I wiped it all down and then just lightly wiped it again with gun oil. The manual is good for bolt disassembly instructions. Fairly straight forward.

    I cannot try it for a while. Winter storm warning here now and them plummeting back into a deep freeze tomorrow so I won't be braving the outdoor range anytime soon. Maybe the COVID restrictions will lift next week and we can get back into the clubhouse.

    Thanks all for the input. Everytime I ask a question here, I learn way more than just the answer to my question. Thanks for the varied input.

    Regards,
    Shawn

  6. #16
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    Attached is a photo of the cartridges fired yesterday. The taller ones, obviously, are the ones that did not go off. You can see that one had a couple of pin strikes. The photo might be hard to tell from but to me, it looks like they all had similar strikes.

    Which is not good news, I suppose. It would be nice to know that something influenced the pin impact. Regardless, after cleaning again, we will see if it makes a difference.


    Last edited by ShawnRich; 01-18-2022 at 03:05 PM.

  7. #17
    BANNED 350 Mag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reb View Post
    Cold weather with to much oil,grease on firing pin spring could be the culprit.
    Causing a lite firing pin strike
    This happened to me this Fall.

    After tracking a Bull Moose through thigh deep snow and snow falling of trees my action had gotten wet.

    After I gave up on the "stalk"....I stopped , made a fire, had lunch...wondered about the ice and snow around my actuon.

    Decided to test fire my rifle..."click"...."click" nothing.

    Took around 7 cycle of bolt and pulling trgger before it fired.

    Hiked back to sled.....packed up skidooed home....5 minutes later 29" Bull almost hits my machine....I get off and have time for a snap shot....Moose down.

    Had I not checked my rifle...would have been no Moose this year....lol.

  8. #18
    Moderator woodchopper's Avatar
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    clean the bolt, I suspect that there is a fair bit of factory grease in the spring

    I had a guy who over the last 2 years constantly had issues with his new 30-06 on the range, every time we would give him the same advise, completely disassemble the bolt and clean it, re-oil with a light oil. He never listened. Finally he took it to a gunsmith who cleaned it and surprise it works now.
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  9. #19
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Big Bad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnRich View Post
    Attached is a photo of the cartridges fired yesterday. The taller ones, obviously, are the ones that did not go off. You can see that one had a couple of pin strikes. The photo might be hard to tell from but to me, it looks like they all had similar strikes.

    Which is not good news, I suppose. It would be nice to know that something influenced the pin impact. Regardless, after cleaning again, we will see if it makes a difference.


    Well those are faintly light strikes anyway, at least the top 2 are. Take the advice of Mr Woodchopper.
    "Guns don't kill people, the government does." -- Dale Gribble
    "The best fatal mistakes to learn from are those made by others" -- BB Truism
    "Knowledge isn't free. You have to pay attention." -- Richard Feynman

  10. #20
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    I thought I should update this thread.

    I disassembled and cleaned up the bolt, as per suggestions. The clubhouse opened here in Ontario, on Monday, so I went out to try out the previously struck cartridges...

    1 of the 2 fired but the other 2 did not. I don't think it is really a fair observation as they all had previous strikes anyways so I don't think the firing pin is going to make a solid impact. But interesting that one still went off. As suggested earlier too, I found the bin for "dud ammo" so disposed of the 2 unfired ones.

    I proceeded to shoot about 30 more and all worked flawlessly. But now I was in a warm clubhouse.....

    I am going to chock it up to some or all of the suggestions, being bolt grease, cold, maybe a little something on the bolt face or chamber face or a combination of those.

    I just wanted to say Thanks for the input.

    Cheers,
    Shawn

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