QD Review - M+M M10X-Z DMR 7.62x39

[Light Infantry]

Oh boy I cant wait not to buy one!

Can I go in halvsies on that!! We can split the non existent shipping too.

[JeffMan]

I’d like to know why some run so well and others don’t. Dimensional issues in the receiver, chamber, barrel, or is it about spring tension in various springs? Or maybe it’s all of that…

It’d be interesting to see what needs to be done to the lemons to run properly. If North Silva had a competent gun smith, these videos could be a thing of the past.

[TKB35]

Good video. It certainly supports Wolverines findings too.

I must have won the lottery with mine. These reviews make me question how long mine will work reliably.

Apparently I did as well, required me changing parts out but I have non of those issues that this individual has anymore. I also get better grouping from 100 yards with a strike fire II red dot….

[Bartok5]

Excellent review, Lucas Precision Riflecraft (LPR) - thanks very much for the time, effort and evident patience that went into crafting that outstanding video production! If only the M10X and/or the combined Customer Service from M+M or North Sylva were even remotely as good as the video. Alas, that was clearly not the case....

After watching the LPR video I believe that we have to add "Feed Geometry" to the llist of common shortcomings with the M10X. There is really no other way to explain the repeated double-feeds and (in particlular) the stoppages where the bullet tip was mis-aligned with the Chamber. This strongly suggests to me that the angle of the feed ramp and/or the magazine presentation in the rifle is manufactured out of specification. That being the case, no matter how many differnt bolts you try you will not fully eliminate the feeding issues. At that is where we ultimately end up at the end of the LPR Video Review - with the rifle performing marginally better than it first did (now 15 rounds between failure), but far from "perfect" as M+M claims in their promotional liiterature.

The LPR Video Review reinforces my belief that both M10X production and QC are wildly inconsistent, resulting in shipped rifles with fundamental problems like the example featured in the video. In my view it is highly unlikely that further "tinkering" and parts replacement will result in reliable function with that particular firearm. Nothing short of a full rebuild with extensive QC testing will resolve the feeding problems plaguing the rifle in the video. M+M Industries really needs to step up its Customer Service and embrace responsibility for malfunctioning M10X rifles. They must be prepared to write-off complete rifles as unworkable, scrapping the Receivers as necessary. Inadequatedx Fixtures and Jigs used in the manufacturing process may be responsible for inconsistent Feed Ramp Angles, much the same way that different rifles have recently been found to exhibit varying degrees of Barrel misalignment due to off-true drilling of the Trunnions. This can only result from Receivers being improperly mounted or secured in the drilling jig, or problems with the accuracy of the jig itself. Either way, Barrels are being mounted off-center on production rifles approved for factory release by the M+M QC "process" - whatever that consists of. It therefore stands to reason that far more subtle Feed Ramp geometry issues may also entirely escape the final QC process.

It seems to me that M+M must fundamentaly revisit their approach to Customer Support, while at the same time adopting and living the motto that "the customer is always right". Instead of frequently blaming the owner/operator for M10X failures (eg. incorrect gas setting), the company must accept that it is the rifles and not the end-user who is at fault for persistent failures to feed or function. Therer are clearly a host of manufacturing problems leading to inconsistent interoperability of parts on the M10X rifles. M+M Industries needs to "own" the M10X problems by completely revisiting its manufacturing and assembly processes. Ditch the Grub Screw and tighten the tolerances between the steel Receiver and the aluminum Monolithic Rail such that there is zero/minimal slop. Ensure that the Barrels themselves are mounted True in the Trunnion of each Receiver, so that a consistent feed angle is achieved in each rifle that passes final QC. And so on, and so forth. If M+M Industries revisits and tightens up its manufacturing processes and the fixtures/jigs that it is using to manufacture the rifles many of the issues may just resolve themselves. It is certanly worth a try, as the current inconsistency in rifle manufacture and resultant performance is completely unacceptable. Indeed, much damage has already been done to the M+M Industries brand as a function of the rifle's inconsistent performance and poor accuracy, as well as the company's indifferent Customer Service. It may very well be too late to salvage the firm's reputation at this point. Only time will tell...

Thanks (and congratulations) once again to LPR for producing such a comprehensive overview of the various problems plaguing the M10X platform. Hopefully M+M Industries is paying close attention to the Video and this discussion Thread (among the many others). Notwithstanding end-user efforts to resolve the particular problems plaguing their individual rifles, responsibility for addressing and resolving the consistency problems plaguing the M10X platform belongs entirely to M+M Industries. It remains to be seen whether the company will rise to the occasion or fade into obscurity as a failure footnote in firearms design history.

I will report my findings after I put first rounds downrange with my own shiny new M10X tomorrow. I am not anticipating perfection. Watch and shoot...

[Curtton]

It’d be interesting to see what needs to be done to the lemons to run properly. If North Silva had a competent gun smith, these videos could be a thing of the past.

yeah, i was wondering why the manufacturer asking the owner to check for burr in the chamber after two warranty claims, shouldnt a competent gunsmith at NS have done that?

[CobraGT]

Hey guys, I just signed up and posted a new thread for this topic, but thought I'd chime in here too. I spent the last seven months evaluating this rifle. I finally uploaded my review last night. The title is a reference to M+M's advertising copy, in case anyone is wondering. Have a look: bit.ly/prc-016

Great video, if not a reassuring one! Not that it matters, given your shocking accuracy results, but I'm curious as to whether your barrel was canted at all, in addition to all of your other problems. My M10 functions 100% with pmags on gas setting 1 (it would generally fail to strip rounds out of anything other than a pmag on setting one), 100% with any mag I've tried on gas setting 2, and is printing groups at 50 of only a couple of inches with a red dot, but given the canted barrel on mine, the POI varies left-to-right depending on distance. It sounds like I won the lottery with the limited issues I have...

[hutchster]

Regarding lucas's video, has anyone every seen patterning happen like that before with a different rifle design ?

Weird how it would put one left of center 3" then right 3" of center than back and forth 1 after the other, then occasionally go left, right, left, right before putting 5th dead center.

Is it something like the receiver/scope rail shifting due to harmonics and stopping left and then after firing again settling to the right and back and forth ?

[Cromagn0nMan]

I have one, and I have had none of these problems.
Its actually alot of fun to shoot, and runs reliably. The only issues I've had is poor ammo (surplus).

[JeffMan]

I have one, and I have had none of these problems.
Its actually alot of fun to shoot, and runs reliably. The only issues I've had is poor ammo (surplus).

Yup. Same here. 200-300 without a single malf.

Right out of the box, load, fire, repeat.

The trigger is so light the first round spooks me.

My barrel is slightly canted, in relation to the handguard tho - I'm not too worried about it. My rear sight is slightly drifted to the left but I had a Stag AR15 that the rear sight was ALL THE WAY to the left. - dealer said it was fine and was just tolerance stacking (shrug)

I think I measured my barrel is out by .27mm or something. I could probably loosen the grub screw and straighten it but I'm reluctant to screw with it when its running so well and accuracy is acceptable.

[CobraGT]

Regarding lucas's video, has anyone every seen patterning happen like that before with a different rifle design ?

Weird how it would put one left of center 3" then right 3" of center than back and forth 1 after the other, then occasionally go left, right, left, right before putting 5th dead center.

Is it something like the receiver/scope rail shifting due to harmonics and stopping left and then after firing again settling to the right and back and forth ?

I think the aluminum shell upon which the optic is mounted is moving on the steel receiver, back and forth with each shot. The design of this rifle features loose tolerances between the aluminum shell and steel receiver... given the somewhat random QC on these rifles, I suspect the tolerances on his rifle are looser than most, resulting in his issue.