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Thread: Clarification the new regulations starting MAY 18 2022

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    So what we really have are pre-May 18 receivers and post-May 18 receivers, then. I can see the used market contracting slightly as people hold on to their untracked rifles, shortly before being overrun by idiots trying to cash in because "they know what they got".
    I'm not sure I follow what you are saying.

    All firearms will be subject to the new regulations from May 18 onwards.

    But what we will have is a mixed bag of firearms that have been tainted by varying degrees of registration.

    Such as:

    Non restricted firearms that were acquired before 1995 and have never been registered anywhere, and are legally possessed by the original owner. These firearms may or may not appear in one of the old red CFO log books issued to and held by a licensed business for firearms related transactions.
    Non restricted firearms that were acquired before 1995, and were transferred after that point during the requirement to register Non-restricted firearms, but were not actually registered as the individuals availed themselves of the amnesty that was enforce through out that period.
    Non restricted firearms Manufactured or imported after 1998 which were positively subject to a legal requirement for registration, that may or may not have actually been registered.
    These firearms may or may not also appear in the CFO issued log books held by businesses.
    Non restricted firearms that at some point in time from 1998 to 2012 that were registered in the firearms registry, where the records were officially, allegedly, but not actually deleted. These firearms may or may not also appear in CFO log books held by a business
    Non restricted firearms that were never registered in the Federal Registry, but were registered in the Quebec Provincial registry.
    non Restricted firearms that were registered in both the federal and the Quebec provincial registry.
    Non restricted firearms that entered Canada at any point from 1968 to 2012 where the firearm would have needed to be declared at CBSA, and CBSA would have recorded the declaration of the firearm in CBSA records, whether or not they also appear in any other registry.

    There are probably other versions of government records I am forgetting.
    After May 18th, 2022, there will be the requirement to comply with this transfer number process, which will see records created both at the Canadian Firearms Registry as well as at the point of sale, if its a business.

    it is impossible for any person to know whether a non restricted firearm offered for sale today would be captured in any of the above databases, unless they have been the sole owner, manufacturer, importer, and can be sure that no other person would have provided any such info.

    Receivers (or whole firearms) manufactured before 18 may, 2022, would likely have been manufactured, imported, or transferred during some period of time where no registration was required, and so there would be a break in the documented chain of ownership from factory to current legal owner.

    Receivers (or whole firearms) manufactured after 18 May, 2022, and afterwards for the period of time that these regulations, these firearms are going to captured in records documenting a chain of person to person transfers (like a registry).

    As we have already seen in Quebec, firearms that exist in government records tend to be assigned less value to a person not subject to such requirements.

    Yes I suspect this will have a chilling effect on the secondary market. I suspect people will not want to transfer a firearm that is unregistered in a fashion that causes it become registered.

    There will be lots of gun owners that are utterly ignorant of these regulations, and will unwittingly contravene them.

    There will also be a smaller subset of gun owners, some of whom who never bothered to get a PAL, who deliberately ignore these regulations as more unenforceable nonsense.

    Other gun owners will be weary of such transactions, and seek to avoid a potentially unlawful transfer that would otherwise have been mutually agreeable.

    As always, it will be a mess, legally it will be atrocious, practically this law will likely be of little consequence, complied with joyfully by those gun owners who love to comply with nonsense regulations, and ignored with impunity by those opposed to such nonsense, just as the last requirement to register non-restricted firearms was.

    Incompetent politicians, being advised by incompetent bureaucrats, being administered by incompetent government drones. Expect the Canadian Firearms Program to continue its well documented pattern of interpreting the law as they see fit, ignoring it completely when it becomes convenient to do so, and having absolutely no regard for the sanctity of the rights of Canadians, the constitution of Canada, or their oaths of office.
    Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. HL Mencken. 1919.

  2. #42
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    Thanks for the clarification. From a read of the document, I should be able to automatically receive a reference number using the Web Services. I always had to wait an extraordinary long time to get an agent on the phone, although the agents were always congenial when they were finally available.
    Do you know the address of the Web Services?

  3. #43
    CGN frequent flyer KotKotofeich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron SS View Post
    Incorrect.

    Businesses have not been required to keep exact records of their Non Restricted firearm inventory, by the CFO, since 2012. The Harper government in 2012 brought in regulations that explicitly forbade the keeping of such information by anyone, at least insofar as it related to the transfer of NR firearms. I'm sure lots of Dudely Do Good gun owners, in a delusional act of 'Due Dilligence', violated this law.
    Here's a quote from an actual, valid business license, as issued in 2020:

    Records must be kept of all transactions related to: manufacture, assembly, possession, purchase, sale, giving, lending, importation, exportation, display, repair, restoration, maintenance, storage, alteration, pawn broking, deactivation, dismantling for parts, destruction, transportation, shipping, distribution or delivery of firearms, prohibited weapons, restricted weapons, prohibited devices or prohibited ammunition.

    Records must include: make, model and serial number, inventory number, name and firearms license number of the person from whom the firearm was acquired along with the date of the transfer and date of acquisition. Furthermore for restricted and prohibited firearms, the name and the firearms license number of the person to whom the business provided the firearm to as well as the certificate number and transfer reference number.

    end quote.

    What is changing is that this info now needs to be collected for NR as well.

    The letter with the changes to the license conditions reads:

    The business must record, and, for the period of 20 years from the day on which the business transfers a non-restricted firearm, keep the following information in respect to the transfer:
    the reference number issued by the Registrar
    the day on which the reference umber was issued
    the transferee's license number; and
    the firearm make, model, and type and, if any, its serial number.

    end quote

    So in summary, businesses _were_ required to keep these records except the info of the person the NR was being transferred to. That is now a requirement. And the requirement to keep the records for 20 years was added.
    Always looking for guns made 1890 or earlier - class doesn't matter, even prohibiteds.

  4. #44
    CGN frequent flyer MustangFrank's Avatar
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    This is what they sent to Firearms Businesses last week. No interpretation needed.

    (1) The business must record and, for a period of 20 years beginning on the day on which the record is created, keep the following information relating to the business’ possession and disposal of all non-restricted firearms:
    (a) the classification of the firearm;
    (b) the date and an indication of any business activity related to the possession or the disposal of the firearm, including, if applicable, its purchase, sale, bartering, gifting, consignment, importation, exportation, repair, alteration, deactivation, destruction, manufacture, pawn broking, storage and display;
    (c) the firearm’s manufacturer, make, model, type, action, gauge or calibre, barrel length and, in the case of a fixed magazine, magazine capacity;
    (d) all serial numbers displayed on the firearm’s frame or receiver;
    (e) the name and address of the individual or business to which the firearm was sent, or from which the firearm was received, in the course of any business activity referred to in paragraph (b) other than an activity that relates to a transfer of the firearm, if applicable; and,
    (f) if the business caused the firearm to be shipped by another person, the name of the shipper or carrier, their licence number or permit number, if applicable, and the package tracking number of the shipped firearm.

    (2) The business must record and, for a period of 20 years from the day on which the business transfers a non-restricted firearm, keep the following information in respect of the transfer:
    (a) the reference number issued by the Registrar;
    (b) the day on which the reference number was issued;
    (c) the transferee’s licence number; and
    (d) the firearm’s make, model and type and, if any, its serial number.

    (3) The business must, unless otherwise directed by a chief firearms officer, transmit any records containing the information referred to at conditions (1) or (2) above to the Registrar of Firearms if it is determined that the business will cease to be a business.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by KotKotofeich View Post
    Here's a quote from an actual, valid business license, as issued in 2020:

    Records must be kept of all transactions related to: manufacture, assembly, possession, purchase, sale, giving, lending, importation, exportation, display, repair, restoration, maintenance, storage, alteration, pawn broking, deactivation, dismantling for parts, destruction, transportation, shipping, distribution or delivery of firearms, prohibited weapons, restricted weapons, prohibited devices or prohibited ammunition.

    Records must include: make, model and serial number, inventory number, name and firearms license number of the person from whom the firearm was acquired along with the date of the transfer and date of acquisition. Furthermore for restricted and prohibited firearms, the name and the firearms license number of the person to whom the business provided the firearm to as well as the certificate number and transfer reference number.

    end quote.

    What is changing is that this info now needs to be collected for NR as well.

    The letter with the changes to the license conditions reads:

    The business must record, and, for the period of 20 years from the day on which the business transfers a non-restricted firearm, keep the following information in respect to the transfer:
    the reference number issued by the Registrar
    the day on which the reference umber was issued
    the transferee's license number; and
    the firearm make, model, and type and, if any, its serial number.

    end quote

    So in summary, businesses _were_ required to keep these records except the info of the person the NR was being transferred to. That is now a requirement. And the requirement to keep the records for 20 years was added.
    So if I am reading this properly, businesses were required to record information about the NR firearms in their inventory, but not any information related to the transfer of that firearm out of the inventory?
    Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. HL Mencken. 1919.

  6. #46
    CGN frequent flyer KotKotofeich's Avatar
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    Yes, that is correct, though I can't vouch that all businesses have the same wording in the licenses.

    MustangFrank above quoted the letter amending the license conditions more fully than I, I only posted what I thought was relevant.
    Always looking for guns made 1890 or earlier - class doesn't matter, even prohibiteds.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyoTHC View Post
    So what happens if you order something, say today.. and the retailer takes several days to process it because of the increase in business, say it ships after the 18, now what? If itís in stock and purchased today, does that mean it goes by todays rules no matter when itís shipped? Retailer claims they donít charge the card until it ships.. this could get dicey for some.
    would paying in cash not skirt the issue?
    The fact that Islam is a religion of peace and compassion for many, a peaceful and compassionate pilgrim, is immaterial as long as the spirit in the Arab/Muslim world is hostage to militants who regard Christians as "crusaders," and Jews as pigs and monkeys. George Jonas

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by meadowmuffin3 View Post
    would paying in cash not skirt the issue?
    That depends on what you mean by paying in cash.

    There is nothing in the regulations that suggest a transaction would be subject to different rules depending on the method of payment.

    If you are suggesting that a business would simply ignore the rules for a cash deal, I doubt you are going to find a business willing to risk their entire business, and their employees well being on a single cash sale.

    No one here is going to be giving you advice on how to skirt the rules.

    Im curious thoigh, that if the Government is sending all these letters with information on the new regulations to people who sell guns, I wonder if the government is sending these letters and regulations to all tue straw purchasers, smugglers, traffickers and domestic theifs who provide firearms the gangbangers doing all the violent crime.
    Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. HL Mencken. 1919.

  9. #49
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    Does the buyer have any notification that there's been a reference number made with their name?

  10. #50
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Suther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apathy View Post
    Does the buyer have any notification that there's been a reference number made with their name?
    Not that I've seen.
    "We don't take souls, we leave that to wives and girlfriends, but we can do a layaway " - Grumpy Wolverine.

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