New transfer rule

BattleRife said:
I understand the government is not our friend, and everything they do should be scrutinized with caution and distrust, but really, all these hysterics over such a small change is pretty ridiculous, and more than a little tiresome.
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t's not as simple and trivial ...

they are building a (sparse) graph to reflect a network of PAL_Buyer<>PAL_Seller relations, with data related to particular NR firearms involved being added in time via several entry points:
1. dealers info post May 18 for NRs entering since this day
2. any business license holders' records created post May for any NRs which were existing before May 18
3. any other ways, e.g. 6NIA forms listing NRs together with Rs submitted to CFO to obtain ATTs to/from point of entries on hte border with USA

This sparse graph will be evergreen, constantly being updated .. providing more and more information to trace NRs' circulations across licensed gun owners ...

Of course, nothing affects criminals and their illegal guns' movements ... but it's not intended for that in any way ...
 
ColinD said:
So that’s it, in less than two hours this is the requirement? Or is all day tomorrow good to go still?
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if I read it correctly, it's May 18 already in Ontario ... and any NR firearm here needs to be transfered - taken out of store or of sellers' hands/shipped by the new rules ...
dealers should know for sure ... some were advertising that they will be open 'till midnight ...
I guess that was communicated as old PAL verification system for businesses stops and new starts ...
one can check Individual services if they are turning it on by a time zone, for me it came up at 12:01AM ...
 
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SLToronto said:
t's not as simple and trivial ...

they are building a (sparse) graph to reflect a network of PAL_Buyer<>PAL_Seller relations, with data related to particular NR firearms involved being added in time via several entry points:
1. dealers info post May 18 for NRs entering since this day
2. any business license holders' records created post May for any NRs which were existing before May 18
3. any other ways, e.g. 6NIA forms listing NRs together with Rs submitted to CFO to obtain ATTs to/from point of entries on hte border with USA

This sparse graph will be evergreen, constantly being updated .. providing more and more information to trace NRs' circulations across licensed gun owners ...

Of course, nothing affects criminals and their illegal guns' movements ... but it's not intended for that in any way ...
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and yet they still wont know what's be moved,you could be calling to check a license to sell ammo,so much for that great data trail,
 
MVP said:
Yesterday I asked one of the "information officer" from RCMP firearm program about this when I verified a buyer's PAL. She said no firearm information is needed, only the buyer's PAL number and RCMP will issue a reference number which valid for 90 days. She also said we don't need to retain the reference number or the buyer's information. Then I don't see a point for the reference number.
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Has anyone called in to try yet?

This is exactly as I see it.

There was a guy in Eastern Ontario who had his PAL revoked but he kept his card, he then went and bought a gun as the PAL never had to be verified and went and killed 2 women.

Look him up, Basil Borutski, this happened in 2015, this is one of the reasons this verification is required.

The crap that is coming out is the same as when everyone said that all our 12ga guns have been banned, do not give them any ideas, the whole purpose and documentation on this is to verify a PAL, it does not mean they are buying a gun, possess a gun, buying ammo, what the gun or ammo is, it is simply to verify that the PAL in question is valid.

My understanding is that if you verify the PAL then that reference number and timelines allows you to sell or give them any number of guns in that time frame on that single reference number, or none at all and nobody knows any better.

I had a guy at the hunt camp one year yelling at me that you had to register all your barrels, he actually forced it on the RCMP to take his barrel information and register his gun with all those notes. The guy had no idea that in Canada the receiver is the only controlled part of the firearm. I bet he would have tried to register multiple magazines if he had them.
 
Wiskey1 said:
and yet they still wont know what's be moved,you could be calling to check a license to sell ammo,so much for that great data trail,
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may be not on the individual gun level ... but on the sets level - pretty soon ... and when it will be enough to trace back for many (most probably not all) members of these sets (particular guns) ..
it's a growing net with more and more fills (density) in time running ...

this as a long (very long) play ...
 
SLToronto said:
may be not on the individual gun level ... but on the sets level - pretty soon ... and when it will be enough to trace back for many (most probably not all) members of these sets (particular guns) ..
it's a growing net with more and more fills (density) in time running ...

this as a long (very long) play ...
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So why scream that the sky is falling right now when it is not, using lies to deceive the public does not do anything for us and essentially makes you a Liberal politician, so stop it.
 
Sounds more like you're the lib politician citing that this new "verification" is justified, and we're spreading "lies to deceive the public" is right out of their books Mr. Fox. Still wearing a mask to protect others too?

There's nothing wrong with preparing for the death by 1000 cuts plan to gun ownership by our dictatorship in power. How convenient the Buffalo shooting is so close to this date....

Private sale pal checking is as stupid as wearing a mask in your car alone..... How can it be tracked if they aren't logging serial #'s and only verifying the validity of your PAL? riddle me that...

Expecting compliance by the sheep is how that works.
 
BlackMist said:
Sounds more like you're the lib politician citing that this new "verification" is justified, and we're spreading "lies to deceive the public" is right out of their books Mr. Fox. Still wearing a mask to protect others too?

There's nothing wrong with preparing for the death by 1000 cuts plan to gun ownership by our dictatorship in power. How convenient the Buffalo shooting is so close to this date....

Private sale pal checking is as stupid as wearing a mask in your car alone..... How can it be tracked if they aren't logging serial #'s and only verifying the validity of your PAL? riddle me that...

Expecting compliance by the sheep is how that works.
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What Mr. Fox said actually makes sense. I don't agree with it, but he makes sense
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
I don't have an answer, as the feds have been far less than transparent (big shock) and I don't give legal advice.
What I can see is that this new B.S. is a way for them to gather info on firearms that they have no clue exist nor with whom.
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Only if people actually tell them. They lie to us, maybe we should lie to them.
 
BattleRife said:
Essentially, yes. This step is being added because somebody has decided that simple possession of a plastic card is not a reliable indicator the holder is okay to possess firearms. So they make you call to verify the license is still good. And they give you a reference number to prove that you made the call.

What is really being transferred is liability for determining the card holder is really a licensed gun owner, from you, to the government.

I understand the government is not our friend, and everything they do should be scrutinized with caution and distrust, but really, all these hysterics over such a small change is pretty ridiculous, and more than a little tiresome.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure #######s like you said the same things in the 70s about autos, then the 80s about converted autos, then the 90s for restricted, prohibited and any other guns, then again with 1 May 2020.....

See the pattern comrade?
 
Wiskey1 said:
i wouldn't worry to much about it,,law enforcement have stated many times that they dont have time or resources to chase down a NON problem,
this little fluff legislation is about one thing only, appease the liberal anti gun nazis,as long as those idiots THINK something is being done,they think they won something big,but really nothing much has changed,and not much time will be spent worrying about it.
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Yet they'll SWAT raid the house of an 80 year old white guy who's licence just expired.....
 
Fox said:
Has anyone called in to try yet?

This is exactly as I see it.

There was a guy in Eastern Ontario who had his PAL revoked but he kept his card, he then went and bought a gun as the PAL never had to be verified and went and killed 2 women.

Look him up, Basil Borutski, this happened in 2015, this is one of the reasons this verification is required.

The crap that is coming out is the same as when everyone said that all our 12ga guns have been banned, do not give them any ideas, the whole purpose and documentation on this is to verify a PAL, it does not mean they are buying a gun, possess a gun, buying ammo, what the gun or ammo is, it is simply to verify that the PAL in question is valid.

My understanding is that if you verify the PAL then that reference number and timelines allows you to sell or give them any number of guns in that time frame on that single reference number, or none at all and nobody knows any better.

I had a guy at the hunt camp one year yelling at me that you had to register all your barrels, he actually forced it on the RCMP to take his barrel information and register his gun with all those notes. The guy had no idea that in Canada the receiver is the only controlled part of the firearm. I bet he would have tried to register multiple magazines if he had them.
Click to expand...

So, when the CFOs, the police and every other gubbermint agency failed to secure a person who was obviously not safe to be on the streets, or recover their little card, it's obviously the fault of the person who sold the ####### a gun, after being provided the only proof required by law......

This isn't a public safety anything. This is just another poke at legal gun owners. Another step to make a ####ty system ####tier for the lawful
 
Fox said:
So why scream that the sky is falling right now when it is not, using lies to deceive the public does not do anything for us and essentially makes you a Liberal politician, so stop it.
Click to expand...

Because every time we let them have an inch, they took three miles. Every time we've been told to just wait, it'll be fine, we got more intrusive laws.

What you're doing is actually very liberal politician. We only want a few of your rights, don't worry, we won't abuse it.....
 
testosteronecyp said:
CFO in Ontario is already up to 6 weeks for restricted transfer wait times... I wonder what this new requirement will do to their productivity
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You said productivity lol, you so silly. It will definitely be an excuse to need more money, more people, and more access. It's a stepping stone. The first drop in the deluge that drowns us all.
 
Mere_Mortal said:
What Mr. Fox said actually makes sense. I don't agree with it, but he makes sense
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Of course, it makes sense! We're law-abiding citizens! I can't dispute that it doesn't make sense!

However, up until 12:01 this morning, we did it the old way, and how bad was it? Did you sell to any mass murders? gang members? Or were we all law-abiding citizens and bought/sold to other good folks?
Did you maybe wake up one morning before 12:01 this morning and go postal? Of course not, you're on here messaging!

I see it no different than say a mask mandate, yesterday at 12:00 covid was really bad, at 12:01 I'm now free to take my mask off...or vise versa

Once again I will ask; IF they aren't tracking serial numbers how in god's green earth do they know I'm making a private sale? I'm not keeping records for 20 years of some random person I sold whatever to... If they aren't tracking it, they can't prosecute me for selling what they aren't tracking. They want compliance that you will. If no one participates, they fail!

What if I'm selling something I bought before 12:01 AM this morning? Are they tracking those now too?

So then the question becomes, well how do I know if the person I'm selling to is valid? Let's take a step back and think about that, what was your answer to that question before 12:01 AM this morning???
What if the person I sell X to doesn't go off and shoot up a crowd somewhere? What was your answer to that before 12:01 AM this morning??

We're continuing to be programmed to question our neighbor, question ourselves....one more blow to the wedge in the divide. They're not stupid in what they're doing.

Look up how the Gestapo operated, yea yea I'm going there. But let's take a look at history for a moment and see what lesson we can learn from it. I'll give the breakdown. You can find your own info if the interwebs haven't "changed history" already.

They would tell the people they caught, no we're not going to arrest you, BUT, you have to inform for us about your neighbors, your friends, your family. That FEAR is how they were able to be so successful into mass compliance; through fear of thy neighbor!
What if I sell to a cop who's making a name for himself....There's the fear! What if I sell to a Karen....There's the fear! You're ready to comply simply from that fear alone.

Look what happened to folks having house parties during lockdowns..... Fear thy neighbor

If no one does it, it doesn't work. If no one complies, it doesn't work.
We were all law abiding citizens up until 12:01 AM this morning, and will certainly continue to be safe and law abiding citizens with our firearms.
Standing up against tyranny, fighting for freedoms, is breaking the cycle not the law. Look how many Karens want to send $$ to ukraine and support the people defending themselves WITH GUNS!!!

Now before anyone writes I think the sky is falling, or I'm spreading lies. Answer my questions first.
 
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