Aimpoint ARCO P-2 FDE

onetwentyish said:

Lol. Right. I like how even though I've been here 6 years longer than you I'm considered a shill for pointing out the obvious despite having only ever had one average dealing with Nordic Marksman in the past.

The real problem here is that most folks who carry this attitude have never had to look at it from a retailer perspective and for that reason you carry a certain level of entitlement. If you guys want retailers to not take steps to protect themselves, realize that prices will have to go up exponentially to cover losses, which will result in them going out of business, and then you will be back to #####ing about how you can't get what you want the way you want it.

You'll notice I didn't say that you should give them your pal details, rather I pointed out that if that is not preferable to you that there is another option that does not require it. But now you guys are #####ing about how that doesn't offer credit card protections... then give them your pal details and have your credit card protections.

For those that are wondering, the purpose of the pal details is that retailers can see your home address on the back end of the Canadian Firearms Program when they enter in your pal details and confirm that it matches with your shipping address that you put in when purchasing said optic/accessory. This is an easy and relatively painless way for retailors to get reassurance that the credit card being used for the purchase and the shipping address all match up so that the likelihood of a fraudulent charge resulting in a charge back.

It's a completely reasonable ask on the retailers part and if you guys don't want to participate in it in order to use your credit cards then just default back to the standard of using cash or the digital version which is e-transfer.

Optics in particular are extremely susceptible to being easily flipped on the second hand Market both here on cgn and the various sites like #######, townpost, etc. The easiest to flip are going to be the high quality brand names with values between $500 to $2000, which is what I meant by high-end versus something like holosun optics or equivalent.

Like I said the level of entitlement being displayed here is ridiculous. These are safety measures set out by Nordic to protect themselves in order to stay in business. If you don't like it use one of the other payment methods or move on, unless you want to offer to personally reimburse them for every fraudulent charge that gets reversed?

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B said:

You are the odd man out. Have fun with your opinion nobody agrees with.

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CAD said:

I liked Nordic.

Liked.

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Can-down said:

I like to give people a chance and even after repeated let downs, I'm not a natural "cancel" kind of person... it's something I could work on but I find just being aware of my "blind spot" is a good start.

I would not be surprised if Nordic finds an agreeable solution to this issue. I'm not really in the retail online space but it seems there have been some suggestions of other ways they can safeguard against fraud. Maybe people with good ideas can suggest something that's easy and effective?

Fraud is likely only going to get worse in the near future.

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CosmiC10R said:

i kind of get the point of the Pal being just a number but its also the most checked piece of ID in canada. a lot of loss prevention is making yourself the least accessible target rather then falsely believing one is totally protected...
EMT is the easy road if one doesnt want to use a CC

I must admit i get kind of amused at people ####ting on a business trying to protect itself rather then the garbage running around defrauding everyone ruining it for the rest of us...

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Can-down said:

I think it's mostly a reflection of gun owners being abused by the current government and taking out their frustrations on the wrong people. That said let's try and help Nordic figure out a better way for people that want to use Credit Cards and in the meantime as you point out there are other payment options.

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addhawk said:

Throw in a couple of boxes of free bonus 410 ammo with the purchase of the optic....

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CAD said:

That is actually brilliant

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Nordic Marksman said:

Guys,

Thanks for all the comments. Feedback is always good to hear from our customers.

The back story is about 3 years ago we lost close to 20k in fraudulent on-line purchases, all of them were optics. Even with a good and secure back credit card processing it still happened. As a merchant, there
is no protection for us, no recourse what so ever. We just find out 4-5 weeks later by way of a charge back for the full amount. The crazy merchant fees we pay to the credit card companies
do nothing to protect us. So we only ask for a PAL to guard against credit card theft. It protects us as well as the card holder. Its legit govt ID.

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takeyerswing said:

So, you claim to have lost $20,000 in goods due to fraudulent credit card purchases and instead of learning from your mistake and procuring small business theft insurance you want customers to share the burden by uploading sensitive identification information?

Many companies offer insurance for exactly the type of fraud you say you experienced.

https://www.cooperators.ca/en/insurance/business/crime-insurance-coverage-for-businesses

These are the basics of running a Ecommerce business...

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CosmiC10R said:

I love how easy it is for people to tell other people actually running a business how the economics of their business is ...

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CosmiC10R said:

Just get insurance and it all works out... that isnt a headache at all... rates stay the same and insurers love paying out

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takeyerswing said:

Well, when you're losing $20k in merch and alienating your customer base at the same time, I would say there are lessons to be learned.



Yes, running a business has costs involved and dealing with the minutia of insurance, taxes etc. is part of the game.

If it was easy everyone would do it.

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Outside of Portland, retail theft is plaguing other industry players. The National Retail Federation’s 2022 National Retail Security Survey found that retail shrink — or when stores have fewer products than recorded in inventory books — when taken as a percentage of total retail sales in 2021, accounted for $94.5 billion in losses in 2021.

Target CEO Brian Cornell said in November that the company has seen “a significant increase in theft and organized retail crime” across its business and has invested in new training and technology to combat the problem, which is typically driven by organized crime rings that sell stolen goods online.

At the time, Target said retail shrink had reduced the company’s gross margin by $400 million and could grow to a $600 million impact by the end of the year.

“This is a nationwide problem that we need to address nationwide with other retailers,” said Target COO John Mulligan. “There is a role for us to work as a retail group with law enforcement and with the government to help find solutions.”

Rite Aid in September also noted a $5 million headwind from shrink, mainly in its New York urban stores. Retail crime has also been especially problematic in California. In October, Cotopaxi closed its San Francisco store after a stream of smash-and-grab thefts hit the store.

To combat the issue on a national level, the U.S. House of Representatives in November passed the Integrity, Notification and Fairness in Online Retail Marketplaces (INFORM) Consumers Act, which works to help inform consumers about this illicit activity and helps law enforcement target criminals who sell high volumes of stolen merchandise on e-commerce marketplaces.

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The outdoor retail giant REI announced Monday that it plans to close its store in Portland’s Pearl District early next year, citing an increase in crime and theft.

In an email to customers Monday, REI said its store in Portland “had its highest number of break-ins and thefts in two decades, despite actions to provide extra security.”

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Nike has temporarily closed a retail location in Portland, Oregon, with one of the richest histories in its store footprint because of ongoing theft.

"People were just going in there with bags already opened and picking up stuff and walking out the door past unarmed security," Ron Herndon, a Portland civil rights and education activist, told Insider, about the closure of the Nike store on the city's MLK Boulevard.

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mildot said:

So I guess? I'll ask? if the retailer has the PAL info, can they run that in a database like CPIC? or similar to find out the personal details of the persons birth, address etc?
Or do they call the police or CFO/CFC to run a "check" on the person? or just use it if case there is a fraud? if so what's the point, once the item has left the store?
I didn't realize the PAL can be used to execute a "small claims" proceeding?

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