Dual purpose rifle for shooting and hunting.

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JDKJamie

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Hello, new to Canadian Gun Nutz here... I have hunted some (cow moose this fall) and now I find that I'm getting more into shooting. I currently have a 300 Weatherby, 30-06 and 7mm. The issue is, after a dozen or so shots I do start to feel it in the shoulder and I'm worried I might develop a flinch if I keep shooting these. So I'm on the market for a new rifle to shoot with. Something that shoots flat and accurately out to at least 500yards....and I can possibly hunt with. Maybe not Moose/Elk but perhaps deer. I've scoured the internet and there's lots of opinions. I found this article by Jim Harmer that was very helpful in giving me the recoil information I was looking for. https://backfire.tv/recoil/ I've laid all the information in the article out in a SpreadSheet and narrowed it down to a few options (ops unfortunately I can't post pictures yet) . But, there might be more to it then that. Looking for any advice to help me decide.

My Objectives in order are:
1) Good to shoot volume (low Recoil, accurate to 500 yards)
2) Ammo readily available and not terribly expensive (I do not hand load)
3) Capable of Hunting 300-500yards

Short list is:
.308 Winchester
.270 Winchester
6.5 PRC
7mm-08 Remington
6.5 Creedmoor

I'm maybe leaning towards the 7mm-08 or 6.5 PRC

Thanks in advance.
 
You basically listed off the most common answers that youll recieve here. The 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor are the vanilla choices that check all of your boxes. Affordable, readily available, bulk ammo availible, both suites for deer etc.

The PRC will cost close to double as much and ammo won't be as available.

6.5x55 (Swede) is another one to consider, especially since you reload.
 
I would say you already have hunting covered, especially at longer ranges with a 300bee and 7mm (I assume you mean 7 rem mag?)

So given that, I would be looking for something with light recoil. I like 7mm stuff, so 7mm08 gets my vote. Not much around these parts that can't be taken care of with a 140gr 7mm bullet started at 2900fps.

6.5CM would be good too, I just have no love for the 6.5mm bore for some reason and you'll get better velocity with the 7mm08.


Edit - just reread the OP, and given he doesn't handload 308 and 6.5creed are the cheapest to feed so I'd go with one of those. ACTUALLY No. I'd go 223rem for volume shooting and just use one of the other rifles he already has to hunt.
 
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Maybe from "olden days" - do not overlook the old version of 7mm-08 - that was known for decades as the 7mm - we call it 7x57 today. I used one for circa 15 years to hunt whitetail and mule deer in Saskatchewan - I was loading 150 grain Partitions, but I doubt anything magic about that bullet or weight for that purpose - in earlier days testing, I thought those 150's made better groups than the 140's or 160's, but I was not really very rigorous about that testing. For what you want, if you load 150 grain or 160 grain in your 7mm Rem Mag, will be about satisfactory in a 7x57 also - but often, rifles prefer certain loadings - not a slam dunk "for sure" thing. My deer hunting 7x57 used to be a Ruger No. 1, so length of cartridge made about no difference to me. My current one is an elderly Husqvarna Model 4100 - so there is 1-12" twist in that barrel (for some reason??) - I got some 140 grain Woodleigh PP SN bullets for that one - about the shortest "hunting weight" bullet that I could come across.

And, before thinking about another gun, learn to hand load and gear up for that. I do not think there is any "inexpensive" ammunition any more - even compared to 5 years ago. Once you are geared up with gizmos, and stocked up with supplies, the availability thing just goes away - is all within your control.

You will soon run into the "picket fence" dilemma if you have not already - going to be few hunting shots that will demonstrate the difference between a 300 Weatherby and a 30-06 - those two will perform very similar for 90% of hunting shots. Maybe consider a 25 caliber - 257 Roberts or 260 Rem. Or a 24 caliber - 243 Win or 6mm Rem. And so on.
 
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The 7x57 really opens up your bullet options. I stick to light stuff in my 7mm08 because COAL limitations make it so I lose too much powder space with heavier bullets, most anything vld, or monometals. Not really an issue with a 7x57, but it doesn't fit in a short action and not a lot of factory rifle options these days.
 
You guys are going to drown him in information.

See if your local store carries more 308,270,or 6.5cm. Then get a tika t3x or ruger American predator in that chambering.

A 7mm-08 is literally just a smaller 308 round.
 
I did something similar recently. I’ve got a few switch barrel tikka’s that run an assortment of cartridges (constantly evolving as I pickup or sell barrels.

I had the chance to get a rem 700 footprint rifle in left hand on a trade and had the choice of 308 and 6.5 creed.

I had the 6.5 covered via a 6.5 prc and 6.5x55 Swede(which was my original fun target barrel) I didn’t want another one (funny enough I have a 6.5 creed barrel in the mail a couple months later - with plans to sell I just wanted the action) I also have a 338 Rcm that will throw heavier punches when I need it.

I have a 308 barrel for my tikka but it’s a heavy weight ftr barrel that’s for sale currently. An I don’t own any 30s right now. So I ended up picking a 308. 308 is easy to load for and tons of components available on the market figured it was an easy choice. I also found 308 Palma brass locally that allows me to shoot lots as I have a few bricks of small rifle primers and nothing else that shoots them. Originally I wanted a 7mm-08 but takes myself out of it with plans to build a 7PRC/7-6.5prcw barrel at some point.

For me this made it an easy choice but I handload and like to fiddle.

Honestly 6.5 creed or 308 a you really can’t go wrong for what you’re thinking. The ammo and knowledge resources are endless. A buddy of mine picked up a new 308 not that long ago either cause he had a ton of ammo kicking around. I did shoot a 308 and 6.5 creed side by side a few weeks back before I had surgery and thought the recoil was more pleasant on the 6.5 creed but I could shoot both all day long even with a herniated disc. However that could have been stocks and the fact that I was testing a RH rifle in 6.5 and my personal rifle in 308 and LH. (Both same action and barrel brands just different stocks)

Hopefully this helps and isn’t just rambling…

Cheers,
B
 
Three O Eight for the Win ... (get it?).

Seriously, of the options in discussion, there is only one realistic choice for wide ammunition availability, options for knock down power and accuracy, as well as cost of ammunition. The 6.5s are popular in the gun press now, but inevitably will be replaced by something newer and swankier. Thirty-five years ago the darling was the 7-08. Anyone remember the clamour that if it wasn't a short fat magnum it wasn't worth lifting off the rack? Or how 6.5 x .284 was the only round needed between gophers and grizzlies? A .308 will be infinitely easier to feed in a small town gun store or crossroads community Canadian Tire than something fadish.

I was at the range a few months ago and a guy had his brand new 6.5 something. It was loud and had a muzzle brake. It barked! The ammo boxes were pretty and I saw the price sticker. Twenty rounds was $80 retail! Those are expensive sighting in rounds, expensive settling down to learn your rifle rounds, and expensive to get practised rounds. If a guy has a family and bills to cover, that kind of outlay every trip to the range has a trade-off. Sooner or later, he'll start hating that gun.

On the other hand, a case of 200 7.62x51 FMJ won't hurt the subconscience nearly as much. For a new shooter, there is no substitute for trigger time. (In case you are worried - they are the same, especially if fired from a modern well made rifle. Yeah yeah yeah, a hundred ink-stained wretches in the gun press have staked their reputations and retirements firmly extolling the least useful arguments on differences between .308 and 7.62x51.) Once the new shooter is comfortable and familiar with his rifle, he can start shopping for good ammo and deciding what works best.

Until then, happy trails and good shooting.
 
Is a new stock on the 30-06 an option? A poorly fitted or lightweight rifle in most of those calibers can still make for an unpleasant day at the range. The worst felt recoil of any rifle I’ve ever owned was a tang safety ruger m77, just didn’t fit. For comparison an unbraked, bench rested 300 weatherly felt nicer on my shoulder.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
The 6.5s are popular in the gun press now, but inevitably will be replaced by something newer and swankier.
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6.5x55 Swede has been around for 130 years. Not flavor of the year like 6.5 creed and 6.5 PRC

I would not say the Swede will do what OP wants to 500 yards, but certainly 300 all day. 140 grain spitzer for deer and bear. 160 grain RN for moose.
Recoil is light even when I load mine hot.

If I were to go for a 'modern' 6.5 it would be Creedmor over PRC but then I would still limit myself to 300 yards for hunting

To 500 yards the .308 would be 'adequate' for hunting IMHO
 
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If you don’t hand load, it would be 308 followed by 308 and by 308 - it is by far the cheapest and most readily available ammo out there - if you want to target shoot/practice there is a pile of milsurp out there - maybe not the most accurate ammo but it’s cheap - next to the 303 British , the 308 has probably killed more moose in canada than any other calibre- spend your savings on a good recoil pad
 
RRH.01 said:
Is a new stock on the 30-06 an option? A poorly fitted or lightweight rifle in most of those calibers can still make for an unpleasant day at the range. The worst felt recoil of any rifle I’ve ever owned was a tang safety ruger m77, just didn’t fit. For comparison an unbraked, bench rested 300 weatherly felt nicer on my shoulder.
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I concur! One of my hunting partners had a Ruger .338 Win Mag in their two-tone canoe paddle stock. It beat him up terribly. On the other hand my rebuilt Century Arms .300 Win Mag P'14 in a plastic Ramline stock soaked up recoil like a .22. He and I are built alike too. Gun buyers should not be swayed by the look of a synthetic stock versus walnut. They both have their place - wood and blued steel on the gun rack, synthetic and stainless in the deepest bush.
 
Lot's of great information here, thank you. I was leaning towards the .308 based on everyone's feedback, but the point was made that I already have 3 hunting rifles. Ugh, so many options to choose from. After some thought, I guess it makes sense to pull "Deer Hunting" off the priorities. So if I focused more just on my shooting what would be a good recommendation? What's a good "centre fire" cartridge that is fun to shoot but will transition to making me a better shot for hunting?

My "Updated" Objectives:
1) Good to shoot volume (reasonably tight groups)
2) Ammo readily available and not terribly expensive (I do not hand load)
3) Will transition to being a better shot hunting

Thanks again in advance :)
 
JDKJamie said:
L..... So if I focused more just on my shooting what would be a good recommendation? What's a good "centre fire" cartridge that is fun to shoot but will transition to making me a better shot for hunting?

My "Updated" Objectives:
1) Good to shoot volume (reasonably tight groups)
2) Ammo readily available and not terribly expensive (I do not hand load)
3) Will transition to being a better shot hunting

Thanks again in advance :)
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If you are not relying on The One The Rifle to hunt and have changed your objectives, then I would take .308 off the list and start another list. For your #1 and #2 questions are just about the same, #3 is confirmation of your skills. I would take advantage of the large volumes of .223 / 5.56 ammo in this country and go with a single shot centrefire scoped rifle. The Ruger American which uses AR15 magazines will be under $1000 after taxes with a simple scope. The recoil is light so you will be able to tune up your bad habits.

Something not mentioned here is how to practise. I've never encountered a heavy wood or concrete shooting bench in the woods, when a deer was patiently waiting in a clear shooting lane. Therefore, as a shooting coach might say, practise your bench skills at the range, but also practise hunting position shooting at the same time. So, do standing and kneeling snaps. Get comfortable doing your Breathe Relax Aim Sights Squeeze drills from the firing line.
 
Since you want to shoot alot (volume) of target shooting with the rifle, you will be VERY disappointed in any caliber and cartridge if you buy a thin light hunting/sporter barrel. Hunting/sporter barrels heat up too fast and then start to string shots wildly out of the group. In warm weather it seems to take forever for a sporter barrel to cool, and then 3 to 5 shots later its so hot again you can't keep your hand on it (egg frying hot). Bring a book to the range because you will need it to pass the time for barrel cooling time between 5 shot groups. 95% of your time will be just sitting there waiting for barrel cooling. If there are shooters waiting for a bench, you won't look good occupying a bench and reading a book! :)

For target shooting I recommend a heavy varmint type barrel, or straight 1.25" barrel. These absorb heat very well and extend the number of rounds you can shoot before time for cooling. In cold weather you can shoot indefinitely if you slow the pace down enough for the air to cool it. Placing a battery powered fan on the bench beside it, or using the internal barrel cooler fans, will help alot. I use both.

Heavy varmint and straight barrels are very heavy and you will not want to carry them for hunting, unless you can set up in one place with some sort of front rest. For target shooting, these heavy rifles need front support, they are not for off-hand shooting disciplines.

I still enjoy target shooting with my sporters in several calibers, but they max out at 5 shots before a long wait for cooling, and its not a "volume" day unless the air temperature is quite cold. At my local range we have sporter class target competition's of two 5-shot groups (plus foulers/sighters) and 10 shots for score on mini bulls. With my sporter 30-06 and .270, they needs to cool down after the first 5 shots, or they will string the rounds badly. That's alot of powder burning in the thin barrels.

For the combo purpose of use for both target shooting and hunting deer, the 6.5 CM as already mentioned is a good choice, in as heavy a barrel as you can find that you might still carry for a short distance while hunting. The identical ballistic equivalent is .260 Rem (uses same 6.5mm bullets, and a tad more powder capacity). I bought a .260 Rem in the Tikka Stainless Varmint, and have used that for target shooting for several years, and been vary happy with it. Recoil on the bench and with bipod prone is not a problem. I have never used it for hunting, but its do-able. The Tikka Varmint is not the heaviest varmint barrel out there, but its way more enjoyable to target shoot with and can take the heat.

Another good deer hunting option for target shooting is .243 Win with a heavy varmint barrel. But for long range I would choose the 6.5 (.264) calibers for the heavier bullet options for wind performance and energy.

EDIT: I see you do not hand load (yet). That means with factory ammo costs, you likely won't shoot hand loading volume per session (e.g. I shoot 30 to 50 hand loads per range session with my target rifles, which I could not afford with factory ammo). A good way to facilitate barrel cooling with the sporters is to bring more than one rifle. Rotate them in your shooting session to allow each one to cool for a spell. If the Range has a rifle stand for 3 or so rifles beside each bench, this system can work well (use your chamber flags and Range safety protocols). If there is no rifle stand by the bench, it can get awkward if you have to get up and walk to and from the rifle stand area swapping rifles several times per session.
 
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JDKJamie said:
Lot's of great information here, thank you. I was leaning towards the .308 based on everyone's feedback, but the point was made that I already have 3 hunting rifles. Ugh, so many options to choose from. After some thought, I guess it makes sense to pull "Deer Hunting" off the priorities. So if I focused more just on my shooting what would be a good recommendation? What's a good "centre fire" cartridge that is fun to shoot but will transition to making me a better shot for hunting?

My "Updated" Objectives:
1) Good to shoot volume (reasonably tight groups)
2) Ammo readily available and not terribly expensive (I do not hand load)
3) Will transition to being a better shot hunting

Thanks again in advance :)
Click to expand...

With hunting off the table, I would wholeheartedly recommend something in 223/556, 7.63x39 or 22lr. Preferably something that mimics the controls, ergos and trigger on your primary hunting rifle. If you want to practice inside 100, then the 22 gets the nod. Out to 500, then the 223/556. That said, 223 match ammo that will reach that far will cost almost as much as any centerfire, if you don't reload.

That said, the 22lr at 100, presents an enormous challenge if you are trying to shoot PRS targets with a stock rifle, even with good match ammo. Every mistake and bit of wind will affect your shot and you will quickly see that downrange. Add some practice in with a 223 for some recoil management and you should see yourself greatly improve.

The Ruger American Rimfire on the left mimics the other rifles and allows for cheap practice.

aVRLRhz.jpeg
 
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