Am I making sound decisions in regards to first rifle purchases?

My daughter and I have decided to take up sport shooting together as we both enjoy it, and it is a way for me to bond with my kid. We took our safety courses together at the end of December and we are waiting to get our licences.

During this time I have been doing some research the best way I know of considering I know next to nothing about all the different guns out there, but I think I have narrowed things down to 2 rifles for us to start with.

1st choice is the Derya TM-22. It seems to be a pretty reliable and simple rifle. I think it is a pretty solid choice for a 15 year old to learn to shoot on, and we can make it look tacti-cool. Yes, I know that slang word, not sure if I am proud of it or not. LOL

2nd choice is a Hoya M1500 Canadian Flag APC chambered in .308. While I strongly dislike our current PM, I am very much a red blooded Canadian, and well, this rifle seems to tick everything for me. I can use it for hunting, or for some longer distance target practice.


What do you all think of my choices? Are they good? bad? anything I should watch for with these rifles? Are there better rifles I should be considering? Am I completely out to lunch and look like an idiot with my choices?

Cheers!

I have the derya, my 15yr old son loves it. It’s a great firearm!!!
As far as a rifle is concerned, I don’t have anything big. I do have a AR-ish 5.56 but I realize that they are out of reach for most.
The 308 will get costly though so id look at all options.

I would stick with a .22 and go for something like this for a first rifle: https://www.tesro.ca/cz-457-training-rifle-bolt-action-rimfire-rifle-22-lr-wood-stock.html

For learning skills I think a bolt action with iron sites would be a great place to start, you can still mount a scope if you wish.

If you don't like the wood look and iron sites, I would consider this: https://www.tesro.ca/cz-457-synthetic-bolt-action-rimfire-rifle-22-lr-synthetic-stock.html

If you want to make it tacticool and suitable for rimfire competitions you can buy an MDT XRS chassis for it.

CZs are guns you can upgrade and grow with - tons of aftermarket parts and support. I have a couple of their rimfires, one similar to the first I posted.

If you do go for a centrefire, the Howa is great and I think you are on the right track choosing one, but you can get most of the 308 models in 6.5CM and that is going to have less recoil for your kiddo. I would also go for a model in the cheaper MDT Oryx chassis or buy a cheap hogue one and buy an MDT XRS Chasis for it which would be one sweet set up and tons of customization options and cost about the same as the Canadian Flag one that is a bit... I dunno hokey pokey looking, lol. I have a Howa 6.5CM and both an Oryx and XRS chassis.

If you are looking to shoot for fun, there’s no point buying guns that aren’t fun to shoot…Any reliable semi auto 22 will be a blast to shoot, especially for a teenager just starting out. Having one that looks cool too is even better.

I have a Derya TM22 and it is reliable, light and accurate…get some of the polymer 25 round mags and enjoy blasting away.

As for Centrefire, if you aren’t hunting right away, maybe look at a cheaper caliber like .223 to develop skills and fundamentals without killing your wallet, plus less recoil.

Everyone should have a decent Centrefire bolt action rifle but maybe consider a semi auto or lever gun as well…just to amp up the fun. Nothing is more fun than a semiautomatic or lever gun in my opinion…

Innavedaw said:

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As for Centrefire, if you aren’t hunting right away, maybe look at a cheaper caliber like .223 to develop skills and fundamentals without killing your wallet, plus less recoil.

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Ditto! A .308 will be twice or more the price per shot compared to a 5.56. There is lots of cheap 55-gr 5.56 in the country, both new commercial, old commercial, and military spec. The supply of 7.62/.308 is different now than a decade ago when every swinging #### had an M305. Ammo cost should always be more important in the math, than the price of the firearm.

I have recommended the Ruger American which uses AR magazines to a couple people. The rifles are very predictable and will build all the hold, aim, squeeze skills you need to shoot well. The Mk 1 has a solid comb and buttplate, the recently introduced Mk 2 has an adjustable comb and butt. Either one will be appropriate to get into the sport.

Although a 5.56 is not hunting legal (and just for this conversation, lets avoid all the nonsense Parks Canada bought for itself with contracted deer culler using suppressed ARs), there is no substitute for trigger time. When you are ready, go up to a legal deer or big game cartridge. Every major manufacturer has a selection. In your case jumping to the Hoya is a little ahead of the game, but that's the right direction.

Question

Innavedaw said:

If you are looking to shoot for fun, there’s no point buying guns that aren’t fun to shoot…Any reliable semi auto 22 will be a blast to shoot, especially for a teenager just starting out. Having one that looks cool too is even better.

I have a Derya TM22 and it is reliable, light and accurate…get some of the polymer 25 round mags and enjoy blasting away.

As for Centrefire, if you aren’t hunting right away, maybe look at a cheaper caliber like .223 to develop skills and fundamentals without killing your wallet, plus less recoil.

Everyone should have a decent Centrefire bolt action rifle but maybe consider a semi auto or lever gun as well…just to amp up the fun. Nothing is more fun than a semiautomatic or lever gun in my opinion…

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I'm not all that up to date on rules and regs, but are you sure 25 round mags are legal?

livinez said:

I'm not all that up to date on rules and regs, but are you sure 25 round mags are legal?

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Yes. The Criminal Code explicitly exempts .22LR magazines from the capacity limits.

livinez said:

I'm not all that up to date on rules and regs, but are you sure 25 round mags are legal?

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Now, I am new to the whole gun scene and learning a lot of the regulations, so I might be wrong. However, in my research, for .22LR rim fire in a long gun, there is no limit to the size of magazines, unless it was for use in a handgun, then it would be limited to 10 rounds.

Buy something that excites you and your daughter. Make sure it is economically sustainable to get enough use that you both can be proficient.

If not hunting I would personally get a 223/556 over a 308 for the reduced recoil and cost/round

As mentioned above, get a .223 or 5.56 if you’re just target shooting and not hunting yet. I’d suggest something in the 6.5-7mm range if you want a bigger cal. I bought 30/06 first then .308 because the 06 was too much as a rookie shooter. Both rifles gave me a terrible flinch. YMMV

See, I thought about going the 556/223 route, but shied away because they are not allowed for hunting, and IF I do go hunting, I figured that having a rifle capable of target shooting and hunting would be the better way to go.

I was considering the Lockhart Raven in .556 it seemed like it was a pretty stout rifle. Hearing some horror stories about it, but, I am also hearing a lot of good things too.

Declared Bishop said:

See, I thought about going the 556/223 route, but shied away because they are not allowed for hunting, and IF I do go hunting, I figured that having a rifle capable of target shooting and hunting would be the better way to go.

I was considering the Lockhart Raven in .556 it seemed like it was a pretty stout rifle. Hearing some horror stories about it, but, I am also hearing a lot of good things too.

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6.5x55 6.5cm 7-08 .270 all good choice that don’t quite kick as hard as .308 but will do the job, but hey if you want a .308; then by all means send it. you’ll end up with other calibres aswell. It’s hard to have just 2..

Hmatt said:

6.5x55 6.5cm 7-08 .270 all good choice that don’t quite kick as hard as .308 but will do the job, but hey if you want a .308; then by all means send it. you’ll end up with other calibres aswell. It’s hard to have just 2..

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yeah, it is pretty much guaranteed I will have more than just a .22LR and .308. But I am also not so flush with cash that I can buy 4-5 guns as soon as my licence comes in LOL! I am not locked in the .308 calibre by any means, but I am trying to cover as many bases as I can at the start, before branching out as time and experience allows. Does that make sense? If there is a better platform, I am all ears. I really am looking for advice!

The 22 is something you can plink with all day and have fun and develop shooting skills. Neither recoil nor cost of ammunition will bring a premature end to a shooting session.

15 is probably a bit old for a pink rifle, though every lass is different and being able to tell the difference is an important survival skill.

You having a good story for why you chose each rifle is key to starting off well with its shooting career with you.

The 308 is a good strong rifle when you're hunting and need something to get hit, but best to talk to the local hunters mentoring you about what's best in the local environment. At the range it's a decent thumper and will reach out to long range and give you the real-rifle experience, but after not many rounds you may turn back to the 22.

maple_leaf_eh said:

Yes. The Criminal Code explicitly exempts .22LR magazines from the capacity limits.

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Good to know. Thanks.

I’ll give you my opinion on the Howa in the APC chassis, I bought a 1500 off a buddy a few years back that came with a Houge stock and the APC. It’s not as nice ergonomically as say an MDT chassis but it’s fine off a bench and more than works.

I took it hunting for spring bear and had some real-time field use, it’s heavy and isn’t all that nice to carry for long periods. It’s cold, and sort of square ish in the hands, I dislike the Lothar butt stock. Overall it sucked to carry around for hunting, I put it back into the Houge stock and it’s a lot more hunting friendly, better all around ergo’s and handling.

The Howa rifle itself is great, fit & finish as well as quality control is great. The factory trigger is nice and crisp, I feel the 1500’s are very much underrated and there’s a lot of value to be had. I no longer hunt with it as I’ve switched to left hand actions but I will be shooting it this year as a target rifle and working up handloads for it.

Declared Bishop said:

yeah, it is pretty much guaranteed I will have more than just a .22LR and .308. But I am also not so flush with cash that I can buy 4-5 guns as soon as my licence comes in LOL! I am not locked in the .308 calibre by any means, but I am trying to cover as many bases as I can at the start, before branching out as time and experience allows. Does that make sense? If there is a better platform, I am all ears. I really am looking for advice!

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I’m preferential to Mauser Sporters and oddball calibres.. I’ve heard the axis are good for starter guns. I had bad luck but I hear more good then bad these days.

Congrats on choosing to get into sport shooting! IMHO a .22lr is the first thing to get. It is cheap to shoot, easy to handle and will allow you to learn how to shoot properly before you get something with some recoil. I would pretty strongly advise against a .308 as a first rifle. It is expensive to shoot and has some recoil which could be unpleasant for new or smaller shooters- can cause issues like flinches which are hard to get rid of. With the .22lr you will but hundreds down range on a range visit. With the .308 you will put a fraction of that downrange.

Learning to reload would be critical for centerfire or stick with .223/5.56 as you can still get reasonably cost factory ammo.

However- if you have a .22lr the second one doesn't matter as much... Maybe you'd prefer a precision bolt action .22lr as the second?