Surplus Irish Body Armour?

I'll be experimenting doing this this coming weekend. It's one thing to shoot a plate that you can only get by spending $250. Building one for $5 is another story (I have 2 plates from Frontier, and they are much more ergonomic than the duct taped ceramic tile plates I made.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?821811-Ceramic-Tile-vs-Bullets

Very interesting!

I suggest body armour newbies start with the following overview for a good background before shelling out their money or experimenting: http://ingunowners.com/forums/2947069-post1.html .

Watch the video first, then go to the DocGKR link and check out the "level III hard armor test data" report that is linked at the bottom. Also have a look at the heart/ribcage diagram below that.

If you look at the test data, the 3mm steel outer over the compressed Dyneema (the heaviest plate at 7+lbs) worked the best and ALL of the tests were conducted on a SINGLE plate. It took a lickin' and kept on tickin'. Now 3mm is roughly 1/8". APM Technologie -- a Canadian military contractor out of Quebec -- makes a 1/4 inch steel version of a hard armour plate. If you linked that up with a Level IIIA vest or had a lightweight Dyneema plate under that steel, it would be HEAVY but likely the most effective set-up.

I started with a Level II vest from SFRC and added two Level III mil-surp European Dyneema plates that I slipped in front of the Kevlar front and back. But I plan on adding a quickly removal steel plate to the mix as well and maybe upping to a Level IIIA vest for a SHTF scenario.

Something worth watching is the movie Black Hawk Down -- especially the part where some of the guys stripped out their hard plates before going out on that mission. The massed "skinnies" that were shooting at them might give an approximation of what hungry hordes might look like in a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI scenario -- and I would assume that any bad guys/looters might be armed with 5.56 steel core ammo. If you're guarding your home/street and not running around or patrolling, weight shouldn't be a consideration and an outer steel barrier might come in handy. APM sells Level III steel plates and Level IV ceramic plates via Ebay or directly -- and they're Canadian with reasonable prices and low shipping cost.

In theory, ceramic plates should be x-rayed annually to verify that they have no microscopic cracks. Steel? Worry free, especially if it's 1/4" over lightweight Dyneema. I like the Irish surplus but being ceramic I'd feel safer if it had another plate over it. You could test one ceramic plate and have it pass, yet another one may have been damaged in transit/shipping and you have no way of knowing that until you're shot. Repeat after me: STEEL first, then add Level III of some sort. A stand alone plate doesn't absorb enough energy even if it stops the bullet(s). The U.S. Army uses ceramic because those guys are hoofing it on patrol. That military ceramic can also be replaced if hit/dropped/damaged by going to the army supply depot. In an extended SHTF scenario, will you have back-up plates?

BigBeaver has it right: think carefully and spend the money on what will save your skin under duress. And watch Black Hawk Down a few times for that message to sink in. Something else to consider before stepping into the SHTF fray: If you get shot in the head or somewhere else that isn't protected by body armour, you've run through your current nine lives. Whether you had on Level III or Level IV ceramic or steel or Dyneema ain't gonna matter one way or the other.
 
Last edited:
This really isn't an area to budget in, if you seriously think you may need to shield yourself from .556/7.62 in a training mishap - and I think that's pretty sound judgement, I'd buy the best stuff you can get your hands on.

I'm willing to best you've easily spent 10 times on guns and ammo, than you're planning on spending on a protective vest. When you consider what's on the line, it's crazy to economize on protective equipment, IMHO.

All the best, and safety first.

Thing with body armour, is it's a VERY niche item with very limited applicability for most people. It's cool to own in normal times, but even in the extremely unlikely scenario's where one might be shot at, even then there are very few scenario's where it is beneficial to have. For example, being shot with rifle calibre ammunition while wearing soft armour significantly increases the severity of a wound one might receive versus if he was not wearing it at all and the added weight from wearing one significantly decreases their mobility. Just think about how military section attacks are done. I still remember "up, he see's me, down." The reason for that was that by presenting less of a target, you significantly decrease your odds of being shot.

If you're prepping for uncertain times, armour is of limited value as well as the question of it's quality significantly reduces it's fungability and trade ability. Guns and ammunition, on the other hand, are generally less suspect to this. If AHBL, I doubt it will look like BHD here in Canada - I think it will look a lot more like New York after Hurricane Sandy. Some people were probably buying body armour, but I bet a whole lot more were buying gasoline (and probably even guns and ammo in some places).

That said, armour IS pretty cool to own and I would really recommend getting a set from Frontier. The real highlight to them is that the kevlar panels provide wrap around side coverage.
 
Thanks Bigfooter, I'm surprised how reasonable their prices actually are considering we're in Canada.

Yeah, and they give you a break on shipping when ordering two plates as well. I love the Irish surplus vests that Frontier has but I'd feel more comfortable with a steel plate over them, front and back. Being a longtime worry wart, I'm planning for a black swan-ish event where it truly is a major league SHTF scenario -- pandemic or EMP (solar or Korean or ...) or something else in that line of the unimaginable. That goes beyond what harbl_the_cat is prepping for. I'm not thinking about floods or some such as in hurricanes etc. : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eym4PwHmUvI (quite fluffy because guns are downplayed due to a UK production crew bias).

So how do you get those steel plates over the rest of the outfit? (And, again, this is for an almost stationary home defense position not hoofing it for miles on the run -- I'd lighten up some for that and use a different rig.) I'm going with Serbian mil-surp plate pouches from eBay. They run about $15 each plus shipping of about $10. I just ordered three of them (in camo) from a guy I've ordered from before there. He has 100% feedback and delivers ASAP. I've bought Mile Dragic Level III (Dyneema/Spectra) plates and Kevlar helmets from him and had them at the door in less than a month. But that might be changing...

I just ordered another few items from a Serbian ebayer and the mil-surp was turned back at customs. She is currently trying to sort that out. So I suggest loading up now before these items become "restricted" or "controlled" substances. I've pretty much got everything I need from that corner of the world now. But they have some neat items at good prices.

I was a little hesitant about the Level III plates (I picked up my first batch -- a pair of them -- for $69 + shipping of $49) but a moderator over on AR15.com tested them out with a range of ammo and they passed muster http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=10&f=18&t=644337 + http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=10&t=290139 . These are the funky old Level III with the anti-trauma layer attached not the new ones that are labelled III + (and can take 5.56 SS109) http://www.armyequipment.com/proizvod.php?idP=1019 . Those early plates generally date to around 2000 to 2002 and are a real deal for the price. They are not, however, infallible especially against M855/SS109: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1212457_.html or http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=543691 .

Regardless, I'm guessing that these guys are decked out in Mile Dragic stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0lvFN3NFwc + http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=VHzCs-XTw3M !
 
Last edited:
is this stuff stand alone?

htt p://apm-technologie.myshopify.com/collections/bodyarmor-protection/products/bulletproof-bodyarmor-hybrid-plate-10x12-nij3a

Cause that seems like a really good deal.
 
I don't understand why people want to count on old body armour....much of it degrades over time....

Actually, most of it holds up for years and years...if properly handled and stored. Bulletproofme.com shows an example of a 10+ year-old Kevlar vest shot up. (Go down about 1/3 of the page: http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballistic_Protection_Levels.shtml ). The AR15.com crowd did the same with 10+ year old Mile Dragic Level III.

And then we have clunky, heavy steel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-ClokH0ks (which is about the best long term keeper).

This ceramic/steel vid caught my attention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewlfehvXHWU. Mixflip is a police officer and knows his guns, ammo and accessories. Yet he switched to steel after first buying ceramic.
 
RE: the stand alone hybrid plate...ask them! They're easy people to deal with and especially helpful. And at that price you could test one out and let us know.
 
Yeah I sent them an email to ask. I am guessing they are, because on the other ones they say to be used with a vest.

Bigfooter: what kind of plates did you get off them?
 
This one?


h ttp://apm-technologie.myshopify.com/collections/bodyarmor-protection/products/bulletproof-bodyarmor-ceramic-composite-10x12-nij4

Is that lvl4? I don't see it anywhere?

I might grab this...

htt p://www.ebay.ca/itm/BULLETPROOF-KEVLAR-trademark-PANEL-WITH-ELASTIC-edges-19X17-NIJ3A-0101-06?item=160919559814&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3368968669121333411#ht_1448wt_986

and stick it into a Condor QPC with a steel plate.

Any thoughts or advice?
 

Yes, those are the STEEL plates (listed as Level III). On the eBay entry you can see the bullet dings on a test plate of that thickness. I'd still use a Level IIIA vest underneath. A number of law enforcement types appear to be going with a Level IIIA vest under normal circumstances and then throwing on hard armour plates over top (or in pockets) when rifles appear on the scene.

Advice? Read everything you can on the subject and then decide what's best for YOU and yours given the circumstances that you're planning for. Go back a few entries and look at the link I provided on hard armour reviews.

Here's a great review of the APM stuff and some general tips on body armour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8_jb6XSUIQ&list=UUcn7Oe7reBBP-aVhzaqTE0A .
 
Last edited:
I read all the posts and watched all the videos out there. There is so much info to take in.

It's odd on there site it doesn't show a rating on those plates.
 
I hadn't noticed that. I assume it's something they simply overlooked because all steel plates of that thickness are rated Level III. Maybe mention that to them. I first found them on eBay and the rating is spelled out there.
 
Yeah. Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to order up a pair of them. How do you find them for weight? at about 7lb each thats gotta slow you down.
 
WOW, They sent me a reply at 5:45 on a saturday night.

they said that all the plates are stand alone 3a, unless otherwise stated.
 
WOW, They sent me a reply at 5:45 on a saturday night.

they said that all the plates are stand alone 3a, unless otherwise stated.

In other words their service is on par with that of the exceptionally fine folks at Frontier Firearms who sell the Irish Surplus Level 4 vests/armour among other things: http://frontierfirearms.ca/index.php/body-armour.html . We've wandered off the trail from their goods somewhat, but those vests are still an excellent buy. In case of prolonged trouble, though, I'd still like to have some steel plates in cheap carriers around.
 
Back
Top Bottom