History of the m14s/m305 from Marstar- John, how about filling us in?

nntw

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John:

it seems like you and Marstar have been instrumental in making this rifle available to Canadians.

For the newer board members (including myself) are you able to say a bit about how this came to pass, and maybe even speculate about how many have been sold in Canada?

Thanks!
 
...i'm very interested to see where this thread goes.

Realizing John obviously needs to protect certain trade secrets, I'd be curious to hear some of the more general broad-strokes.
 
my understanding is that the m305s was 'reverse-engineered' to arm pro-communist guerillas. when that didn't work out, well, there was a market for it in the western world.
gotta feed those chinese govt takeovers of cdn petroleum companies- and other western industries- somehow, right?
 
Actually, as I understand it, the dies for the M14 were sold to China (Taiwan), so they could be produced as the Type 57 rifle for the Chinese arsenals.
Why reverse engineer something that you can purchase for pennies on the dollar?

I too would like to hear about Marstars involvement in making the Norinco semi auto variant available to the Canadian market.


Kirk
 
Actually, as I understand it, the dies for the M14 were sold to China (Taiwan), so they could be produced as the Type 57 rifle for the Chinese arsenals.
Why reverse engineer something that you can purchase for pennies on the dollar?

I too would like to hear about Marstars involvement in making the Norinco semi auto variant available to the Canadian market.


Kirk

I think that's Republic of China (Taiwan) which is said to have bought the tooling, vs People's Republic of China (mainalnd China), where Norincos are born- my understanding is that the People's
Republic of China is said to have reverse-engineered the M14.
 
Marstar are not the only Dealers who bring in M14 from China. They may not only be the first to import . Anyone with a Firearms Liscence , with or without a Broker can Import , just do the proper paper work . But thats another thread or not.
 
Marstar are not the only Dealers who bring in M14 from China. They may not only be the first to import . Anyone with a Firearms Liscence , with or without a Broker can Import , just do the proper paper work . But thats another thread or not.

it seems (from what i've seen from my limited time on this forum) that they're the folks who seem to have the longest history of bringing them into Canada... so i think they'd likely know the most about it.

for the cdn fans, think it's just fortunate that the US banned their import, otherwise, like so many things, we'd have to wait our turn while that market was being fed.
 
well, i have one from way back when that's marked AL 000###- al stands for ALAN LEVER- that would be back about 88 or so- it's a BLUED number, and you can see where the bayonet lug and the f/a selector switch were milled off- they also screwed with the scope mount hole to appease the americans
 
I have one with serial # AL0000X which I understand was from the first batch imported by Allan Lever in the 80's-90's
 
I think that's Republic of China (Taiwan) which is said to have bought the tooling, vs People's Republic of China (mainalnd China), where Norincos are born- my understanding is that the People's
Republic of China is said to have reverse-engineered the M14.

On that point you could be right. I don't have a clue whether or not selling it to 'taiwan' was just a way to get around US state department export rules in 1969, or how independent Taiwan was back then vs. now.
Did Taiwan ever produce any of the guns?

Kirk
 
On that point you could be right. I don't have a clue whether or not selling it to 'taiwan' was just a way to get around US state department export rules in 1969, or how independent Taiwan was back then vs. now.
Did Taiwan ever produce any of the guns?

I know nothing about US export rules or Taiwanese firearms production but I do know this -- in the first half of the twentieth century, China went through a decades-long civil war that made that little affair in the United States look like a family tiff. It ended, or at least entered an extended pause, when the pro-west Nationalist government was forced out of the mainland and forcibly took over the island of Formosa. Through the 50s and 60s and for some time beyond, they were armed with state-of-the-art American weaponry, much like Israel, and they were prepared to go to war literally at any minute.

In the 80s, I worked for a company that sold Taiwan-made computers. We were dragged over the coals for running a newspaper ad with red ink. Red is the colour of Communism.
 
THE M-14 SEMI AUTO;
I am going from memory here, I would have to check the files for exact dates etc....

Some years ago we were approached by Norinco to sell their product line of firearms here in Canada, they said they were not happy with the sales vaolume at that time....You must remember that the M-14 and the AR-15 clones, just to mention a couple, were being sold for hundreds of dollars higher than even today's prices.

We met with some of the administration of Norinco on several occasiosn to discuss what we wanted and what they expected, we met here, in China, in Nuremberg (IWA) and at SHOT.

We reached an agreement with Norinco several months later, we needed many issues made clear before we signed on, the most important being how we would extend our warranty policy to cover Norinco firearms.... Another part of the agreement covered the training of our gunsmith at the various factories in China.

Once we introduced the Norinco firearms to the Canadian market and the consumer took note of our much lower pricing than what was being offered in Canada at that time by other importers.... A couple of things happened;
1) All hell broke loose and we received threatning calls from dealers, other calls were more suttle, like "can't you bring up your prices so we can all make more" ? Funny the consumer found that they liked our prices....
2) Sales soared, within the first three months of having product in our warehouse we sold more than all other importers combined for the previous year....

It was not alwys a smooth road, we had issues, we always resolved them with the hlp of the people in China.... They either came over or we went there....

At times there were production and QC issues, I'm certain most of our customers will agree that the overall fit and finish has come a long way since we began importing. We managed to always try and prevent any potential issues, somtimes causing delivery delays, but since we do warranty everything is it easier to fix minor things before they become a major problem, thats why Frank, our gunsmith, is in the factories on a regular basis....

Many of our happy customers ask how we can maintain lower pricing that many others who import from China, it is simple, we buy in volume directly from the factories, we are the importer, we are the vendor, we sell directly to you the retail customer and to many dealers all over Canada....

You must also realize that some importers are simply not happy with a modest profit margin and want more of your hard earned money, if the market supports that, fine it is a free market system in Canada....

I hope we have replied to some of your questions, if you have others ask ....

John
 
What is the situation for the M-305s now? It seems to me that demand used to outstrip supply. Is that still the case, or have things calmed down now?

Once we introduced the Norinco firearms to the Canadian market and the consumer took note of our much lower pricing than what was being offered in Canada at that time by other importers.... A couple of things happened;
1) All hell broke loose and we received threatning calls from dealers, other calls were more suttle, like "can't you bring up your prices so we can all make more" ? Funny the consumer found that they liked our prices....
2) Sales soared, within the first three months of having product in our warehouse we sold more than all other importers combined for the previous year....

You must also realize that some importers are simply not happy with a modest profit margin and want more of your hard earned money, if the market supports that, fine it is a free market system in Canada....

That is pretty bad.
 
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