Thumbs down to Marstar
- Thread starter IMR4320
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Natureboy
Regular
- Location
- Center of the Universe, Ontario
Firstly, I am not currently or ever have been a Marstar client. In fact since I'm not really into surplus or knock offs of surplus rifles I'm not likely to be a customer in the future. This is not a dig at Marstar I am simply not their target market. I have been reading this thread though mostly out of amusement and a bit out of curiosity. I do want to make some comments both in defense of Marstar and hopefully some helpful advice. I run a few different businesses, two of which are customer referral driven. One is a bodyshop and one is a restaurant. Probably two of the most criticized industries there are so I can safely say I know what a nightmare bad reviews can be.
The INTERNET has created a new customer that we never dealt with before. I can have someone smile at me say how amazing everything was then go home and "blog" that we used too much salt, not enough salt steaks was too big portions were too small....and so on and so on. Yes, first reaction is to jump down their throat and ask why they didn't say so to us there. Why didn't they call us and let us know their "concern"(we use this word in place of words like complaint,
whine) We can never ignore a bad review. Silence validates the concern. We first apologize, why would you ask would we apologize if we didn't do anything wrong? It's simple, we apologize that they were not completely satisfied. We are taking ownership of our possible oversight but are not committing to any one thing. This disarms the client's anger and brings them down to a manageable level. Next we try to get to the root of the problem, what their concern is. Yes it is not easy to figure out who or what a complaint was on a public forum. Your goal is to not resolve it here but open up a dialog where they can call you or message you in private their concern so you can correct or clarify it. After doing so when they thank you ask them to let people on line know they were taken care of.
John you have been in this business for a long time. I understand you get tired of people always wanting something from you. You sell a rifle cheaper then everyone else they have a concern about shipping costs. You sell them cheap ammo with a thin margin and they complain because it wasn't packaged like the new expensive ammo. The customers I see complaining in your threads are usually the ones who are shopping around for weeks to save $3 dollars on a $100 dollar gun. They realize their business is really not that crucial to you, or anyone to that matter so they try to discredit you publicly to get $5 back. These are the people that usually say "I guess my business isn't important enough to them" Usually when someone says this, it's because its true. Unfortunately the INTERNET gives them a way to infect the customers you do want with distrust. This means you have to try to soothe these "frugal" shoppers or start raising prices to weed them out. Lets face it, you sell a hundred dollar rifle for $75 people will do business with you. They will of course expect the hundred dollar service for the discounted price.
My solution is simple. for every concern on here offer that person an immediate, thanks for your concern, this is my personal email address. please message me with the details of your sale so I can look into it and try to resolve it for you. If you can't resolve it to their satisfaction then offer them a rebate on their next purchase. this keeps them as a customer and should make them happy. if they still aren't happy then it costs you nothing to lose them. In the 20 years I have been in business I have given many coupons and gift certificates I have never given anyone a discount or money back. It's in my opinion bad business to give post discounts. It may create a sense of entitlement of discounts to customers who can find anything wrong.
I do want to thank you John for what you have done for the industry. I have read enough on here to know that alot of the rifles we buy were made possible because of efforts you made when I was still in University. I think people take for granted how difficult it is to import firearms and ammo. I'm sure if it was easy alot of the "experts" on here giving you post after post of advice would have jumped in with a bigger better store long ago.
The INTERNET has created a new customer that we never dealt with before. I can have someone smile at me say how amazing everything was then go home and "blog" that we used too much salt, not enough salt steaks was too big portions were too small....and so on and so on. Yes, first reaction is to jump down their throat and ask why they didn't say so to us there. Why didn't they call us and let us know their "concern"(we use this word in place of words like complaint,
whine) We can never ignore a bad review. Silence validates the concern. We first apologize, why would you ask would we apologize if we didn't do anything wrong? It's simple, we apologize that they were not completely satisfied. We are taking ownership of our possible oversight but are not committing to any one thing. This disarms the client's anger and brings them down to a manageable level. Next we try to get to the root of the problem, what their concern is. Yes it is not easy to figure out who or what a complaint was on a public forum. Your goal is to not resolve it here but open up a dialog where they can call you or message you in private their concern so you can correct or clarify it. After doing so when they thank you ask them to let people on line know they were taken care of. John you have been in this business for a long time. I understand you get tired of people always wanting something from you. You sell a rifle cheaper then everyone else they have a concern about shipping costs. You sell them cheap ammo with a thin margin and they complain because it wasn't packaged like the new expensive ammo. The customers I see complaining in your threads are usually the ones who are shopping around for weeks to save $3 dollars on a $100 dollar gun. They realize their business is really not that crucial to you, or anyone to that matter so they try to discredit you publicly to get $5 back. These are the people that usually say "I guess my business isn't important enough to them" Usually when someone says this, it's because its true. Unfortunately the INTERNET gives them a way to infect the customers you do want with distrust. This means you have to try to soothe these "frugal" shoppers or start raising prices to weed them out. Lets face it, you sell a hundred dollar rifle for $75 people will do business with you. They will of course expect the hundred dollar service for the discounted price.
My solution is simple. for every concern on here offer that person an immediate, thanks for your concern, this is my personal email address. please message me with the details of your sale so I can look into it and try to resolve it for you. If you can't resolve it to their satisfaction then offer them a rebate on their next purchase. this keeps them as a customer and should make them happy. if they still aren't happy then it costs you nothing to lose them. In the 20 years I have been in business I have given many coupons and gift certificates I have never given anyone a discount or money back. It's in my opinion bad business to give post discounts. It may create a sense of entitlement of discounts to customers who can find anything wrong.
I do want to thank you John for what you have done for the industry. I have read enough on here to know that alot of the rifles we buy were made possible because of efforts you made when I was still in University. I think people take for granted how difficult it is to import firearms and ammo. I'm sure if it was easy alot of the "experts" on here giving you post after post of advice would have jumped in with a bigger better store long ago.
waterwheel
Regular
- Location
- Location Location
Uh, it's their business. And importing isn't 'difficult'. It's simply knowledge of the process and I'm guessing some time and specialized paperwork. That's not difficult, it's just their jobs. I imagine it's difficult for an individual,but for a business it's not difficult.
If there's a lot of paperwork make sure you know what the paperwork is. If the paperwork gets hung up, make sure you know where to go to get that resolved or expedited. And if it takes six months and you need it today, then start six months ago. that's not difficult, it's actually pretty easy work if you ask me. Once you've done it once it's just a process.
More likely the difficult part is that business owners simply place their order to the U.S. then let it work it's way through the system without any guidance, and when it comes in, then it comes in. I had a gun store tell me this just this week. When's your next gun order? Don't know, could be anytime in the next three months. What? you don't call the manufacture to find out when the product will be shipped and track that? Find out if it's delayed at the border and take steps to smooth that out? Really? The only difficult part about that process is that they're not doing anything at all. Place the order and maybe it comes in next week, maybe it comes in at Christmas, maybe it's here in time for easter, and you don't know? That's because nobody made any effort to find out the answer. If they did, it's wouldn't look hard, it'd look easy.
In the meantime, I wanted to buy from them but couldn't. And since it's a christmas gift, what am I supposed to do? Keep shopping, that's what I do. If they'd have said 'shipped in two weeks, here in three, here's the price', I'd have laid down a deposit.
Don't tell me it's difficult to import from the U.S. It may be a bit complex the first time, but it's not difficult.
I'm ranting - mostly because I don't think this is isolated. The number of business on this site alone (and the few that I've dealt with since I became a gun owner) that don't understand basic customer service is amazing. Geesh, I had a guy who was more interested in going for a smoke break than selling me and my son a gun - and it was overt and obvious. So he went for his smoke break and I took my business elsewhere. I'm looking at you gun room waterloo. How often do you go to that store and see the staff out front having a smoke? Smoke all you like, but maybe you shouldn't have staff that prioritize smoke breaks with the girls over taking customers money. OK, NOW I'm ranting
.
NintendoDuckHunt87
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ontario
I've made a couple purchases from Marstar.
I always call to confirm/ask about my orders regardless of the company they're made with. It's just smart shopping to call and make yourself a person instead of another email.
While I'm here: Hi John, I've been loving my Norc 1911A1 since the day I opened the box. I was impressed with both the speed of service and the quality of the packing job. It was clear to me that your employees had taken the time to ensure my firearm was packaged correctly and in such a way that CP could try their hardest and still not damage it. Also, I find your responses to the individual issues on this thread to be fair, appropriate and mildly entertaining.
Just my $0.02. Enjoy your day.
I always call to confirm/ask about my orders regardless of the company they're made with. It's just smart shopping to call and make yourself a person instead of another email.
While I'm here: Hi John, I've been loving my Norc 1911A1 since the day I opened the box. I was impressed with both the speed of service and the quality of the packing job. It was clear to me that your employees had taken the time to ensure my firearm was packaged correctly and in such a way that CP could try their hardest and still not damage it. Also, I find your responses to the individual issues on this thread to be fair, appropriate and mildly entertaining.
Just my $0.02. Enjoy your day.
Mike Oxbig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Scarborough Ontario
When there's a new sub forum introduced I'm usually the first to about how many we already have and how much it separates already good forums. HOWEVER for the past few months i've had to weed through dozens of "This company sucks" AND "This company rocks" threads on the main page just to see what's new and being offered and what's on sale. This is becoming an annoying trend so give it its own forum. PLEASE.
about how many we already have and how much it separates already good forums. HOWEVER for the past few months i've had to weed through dozens of "This company sucks" AND "This company rocks" threads on the main page just to see what's new and being offered and what's on sale. This is becoming an annoying trend so give it its own forum. PLEASE.
IronCanadian
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg
So which one is it? Do you know it isn't difficult or are you guessing?
spi
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
I like Marstar and have generally had good dealings with them. But once or twice they have pissed me off.
Like forgetting my order for eight months. Then billing me and shipping it out after the order was cancelled.
That was fixed satisfactorily, but still...
Or like when I ordered an AK chest pack on sale for $8 and asked them to go with the cheapest shipping. And they sent it out next day express and I paid $35 shipping for an $8 chest rig.
It's funny to read about, but no funny to see on your credit card. I should have refused delivery. But it came Canada Post and they didn't say what the shipping charges were and just left it in my mail box.
Hahaha.
Like forgetting my order for eight months. Then billing me and shipping it out after the order was cancelled.
That was fixed satisfactorily, but still...
Or like when I ordered an AK chest pack on sale for $8 and asked them to go with the cheapest shipping. And they sent it out next day express and I paid $35 shipping for an $8 chest rig.
It's funny to read about, but no funny to see on your credit card. I should have refused delivery. But it came Canada Post and they didn't say what the shipping charges were and just left it in my mail box.
Hahaha.
waterwheel
Regular
- Location
- Location Location
You'll find that I don't guess when I'm posting unless I post that it's my opinion. Did I post that it was my opinion? Importing isn't difficult. The fact that people who claim to import for a living and don't actually have a f**** clue what they're doing doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing. It means they don't know what they're doing. Why, do you know something about importing? Speak up.
The only thing more amazing than the lack of service from many retailers in this industry, are the people like you who apologize for this nonsense. In every thread about crappy service around here, there's a few that jump in and claim that it's acceptable, that customers have to do business the way the vendors want. I don't think so.
But enough about you already...LOL. Dude all I'm saying is there are people that will complain about everything while doing nothing. Sure if the first round of business sucks, pass on the second. Dump, and run first time around is a bit rash. Deep breaths.
waterwheel
Regular
- Location
- Location Location
Bullcrap. I am having an argument on the internet and I am WINNING! I'm not going to stop now!
wildernessguy
Regular
- Location
- Friendly Manitoba
Nice, and this is the only way for me to get any air time in this forum Rock on brother, victory is imminent!Baahaahahaa...LMAO +1
RRCo.
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
What they really need to teach in business schools is how to sublimate your #$%^@ ego to business, not the other way round. We've all seen some incredibly stupid, short-sighted decisions taken on the basis of ego rather than business sense. I had the good fortune to work for a time for a manager who saw every disgruntled customer for what they were: an opportunity. An opportunity to take someone who was unhappy and talking about it and turn them into a customer who was happy, and talking about it. Politicians know that for every voter who takes the trouble to write in, 500 others feel the same way, more or less.
Smart managers know that for every customer who complains (substantively) there are bound to be others with similar complaints who never bothered to give feedback; they simply went away unhappy, and of course many of them tell others why they are unhappy; they just don't tell you! That kind of process is like rust eating away unseen at your business. The customer who complains is a godsend! Instead of drifting off in silent resentment never to be seen again, they tell you what they're unhappy about. Thank (#%@! Now you have something to work with, now you have an opportunity to fix the problem at both ends. If you can only see it...
It used to be said that "the customer is always right" (even when they're not), which meant that you swallowed your "pride", took your hand off your scrotum, stopped posing in the bathroom mirror and realized that your ego and masculinity would survive a few mouthfuls of humble pie, and that if you were an employee, you were there to provide customer service, which means trying to make the customer happy whether you actually cared that they were happy or not.
Of course, that was if you chose to see it as "humble pie", which isn't necessary at all. You simply have to see it as a chance to make a critic into a walking, talking advertisement. More and more people these day seem to have such weak self-esteem that they are unable to do that, even though failing to do so will cost them plenty of money. They react emotionally to what they see as criticism. Instead of trying to turn the energy of the complainant around to their advantage, they react defensively. A purely emotional reaction.
It all comes down to what you value more: your bottom line or your ego, your bottom line or being out the door when the minute hand reaches 5:00. That same manager had a saying I remember well: "you can't pay people to care; they either care or they don't care". Sad fact is most of them don't, and that is a cultural & educational problem.
This is not pointed at anyone by the way, just general observations, based on what I've seen over the years, but which this thread reminds me of.
Smart managers know that for every customer who complains (substantively) there are bound to be others with similar complaints who never bothered to give feedback; they simply went away unhappy, and of course many of them tell others why they are unhappy; they just don't tell you! That kind of process is like rust eating away unseen at your business. The customer who complains is a godsend! Instead of drifting off in silent resentment never to be seen again, they tell you what they're unhappy about. Thank (#%@! Now you have something to work with, now you have an opportunity to fix the problem at both ends. If you can only see it...
It used to be said that "the customer is always right" (even when they're not), which meant that you swallowed your "pride", took your hand off your scrotum, stopped posing in the bathroom mirror and realized that your ego and masculinity would survive a few mouthfuls of humble pie, and that if you were an employee, you were there to provide customer service, which means trying to make the customer happy whether you actually cared that they were happy or not.
Of course, that was if you chose to see it as "humble pie", which isn't necessary at all. You simply have to see it as a chance to make a critic into a walking, talking advertisement. More and more people these day seem to have such weak self-esteem that they are unable to do that, even though failing to do so will cost them plenty of money. They react emotionally to what they see as criticism. Instead of trying to turn the energy of the complainant around to their advantage, they react defensively. A purely emotional reaction.
It all comes down to what you value more: your bottom line or your ego, your bottom line or being out the door when the minute hand reaches 5:00. That same manager had a saying I remember well: "you can't pay people to care; they either care or they don't care". Sad fact is most of them don't, and that is a cultural & educational problem.
This is not pointed at anyone by the way, just general observations, based on what I've seen over the years, but which this thread reminds me of.
WATERWHEEL;
"And importing isn't 'difficult'."
I can't help it, this is simply too much allow me to repond in some detail
"I'm guessing some time and specialized paperwork. That's not difficult, it's just their jobs. I imagine it's difficult for an individual,but for a business it's not difficult"
This is a most interesting observation indeed, how did you arrive at this conclusion....?
"More likely the difficult part is that business owners simply place their order to the U.S. then let it work it's way through the system without any guidance, and when it comes in, then it comes in. "
You seem to know everythin about our trade.... First off Marstar does NOT buy from American distributors, we do purchase certain items in the US which are either made for us or special modified to meet our requirements, however we do supply some of the larger players in the US with goods from our facilities in Europe.
The surplus firearms and ammunition we import for sale in Canada are purchased directly from various Government agencies (MOD) in several countries around the world...
From 1984 onward we exported ALL military surplus from the former Yugoslavia, we have exported from several European nations, The Middle East, Africa, Asia, Central and South America....
While on the subject of military goods, we have imported for, sold to, exported to such minor customers as The Canadian MOD, The IDF, The US Dept of Defence (Desert Storm) The Government Of Kuwait, just to mention few.... Try doing some of these contracts and then tell me how simple it is....
As for the Chinese we have three different factories producing the firearms we order, we also purchase from various factories in Italy, Germany, Serbia, just to name afew....
Please, unless you have done it, don't tell me importing firearms and munitions is not difficult....I've been at it for almost 30 years, and have operated from many areas that are not in your Michelin guide....The issues and problems are endless....
John
"And importing isn't 'difficult'."
I can't help it, this is simply too much allow me to repond in some detail
"I'm guessing some time and specialized paperwork. That's not difficult, it's just their jobs. I imagine it's difficult for an individual,but for a business it's not difficult"
This is a most interesting observation indeed, how did you arrive at this conclusion....?
"More likely the difficult part is that business owners simply place their order to the U.S. then let it work it's way through the system without any guidance, and when it comes in, then it comes in. "
You seem to know everythin about our trade.... First off Marstar does NOT buy from American distributors, we do purchase certain items in the US which are either made for us or special modified to meet our requirements, however we do supply some of the larger players in the US with goods from our facilities in Europe.
The surplus firearms and ammunition we import for sale in Canada are purchased directly from various Government agencies (MOD) in several countries around the world...
From 1984 onward we exported ALL military surplus from the former Yugoslavia, we have exported from several European nations, The Middle East, Africa, Asia, Central and South America....
While on the subject of military goods, we have imported for, sold to, exported to such minor customers as The Canadian MOD, The IDF, The US Dept of Defence (Desert Storm) The Government Of Kuwait, just to mention few.... Try doing some of these contracts and then tell me how simple it is....
As for the Chinese we have three different factories producing the firearms we order, we also purchase from various factories in Italy, Germany, Serbia, just to name afew....
Please, unless you have done it, don't tell me importing firearms and munitions is not difficult....I've been at it for almost 30 years, and have operated from many areas that are not in your Michelin guide....The issues and problems are endless....
John
waterwheel
Regular
- Location
- Location Location
That's the most important part of your post. Do you think that that half page you posted contradicted anything of what I said? Because it looks to me like you just wrote 5 paragraphs that boiled down to 'importing is sure hard work but I can't tell you because you wouldn't understand'. Frankly, I could give two rats butts whether you have a hard time importing. I just want my guns and my ammo when I want my guns and my ammo, at decent prices. Figure it out, or we'll go down the road to someone that has.
But nevermind all that. Everything is going over your head - you are missing 100% of the point. So let me boil it down for you. Stop solving individual problems in this thread and start solving your problem which is poor customer service.
Everyone reading this thread realizes you have a general customer service problem except you. Your demeaning answer as you mock and ridicule your customers and potential customers is a sideshow only.
toyboy
CGN frequent flyer
hi john.here's my obsevations--my 2¢ if you will.
i have ordered stuff from you on and off since the '80s.
i find that your guns such as the cqa and those yugo mausers were wonderful purchases-great price and reasonable shipping.
however,your parts such as small garand parts are so-so.i bought 2 oprod catches on the phone.i asked condition--they said great shape.i asked how much to ship can.post.got a noncomittal answer.got package sent ups for 34 bucks!!!2 parts for 48 bucks and 34 bucks shipping???
i did not call to complain.maybe i should have.it left a very bad taste in my mouth.p.s. parts had no finish left on them.
why don't you ask for an email when people order on the phone and follow up with a survey on the purchase?
also,i was a shipper for several years and had several options when i sent items out to customers.i checked how much it would cost and sent it
the cheapest most reliable way.also,a company that ships many items out in a day can get a better quote from courriers such as canpar and ups.
i shipped an entire 18 wheeler trailer from montreal to toronto for 425 bucks because i called several places and got the best price.
p.s. i hope canpar is better at not losing packages than they used to be...
i have ordered stuff from you on and off since the '80s.
i find that your guns such as the cqa and those yugo mausers were wonderful purchases-great price and reasonable shipping.
however,your parts such as small garand parts are so-so.i bought 2 oprod catches on the phone.i asked condition--they said great shape.i asked how much to ship can.post.got a noncomittal answer.got package sent ups for 34 bucks!!!2 parts for 48 bucks and 34 bucks shipping???
i did not call to complain.maybe i should have.it left a very bad taste in my mouth.p.s. parts had no finish left on them.
why don't you ask for an email when people order on the phone and follow up with a survey on the purchase?
also,i was a shipper for several years and had several options when i sent items out to customers.i checked how much it would cost and sent it
the cheapest most reliable way.also,a company that ships many items out in a day can get a better quote from courriers such as canpar and ups.
i shipped an entire 18 wheeler trailer from montreal to toronto for 425 bucks because i called several places and got the best price.
p.s. i hope canpar is better at not losing packages than they used to be...
Marlin444
Member
- Location
- Vancouver Island
PM Will be sent and Email including this information. I await your reply.
paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
I can't believe that that a businessman pays money so you all can have a free place to BS each other anonymously, and he gets schit-lipped for it. Marstar has been a great outfit to deal with, and if it wasn't I'D SPEAK TO THEM ABOUT IT
Constructive feedback is a good thing. As a business owner I would want to know how my employees are cutting it. Wouldn't you? Advertising here costs nothing in reality. This place is a gold mine for sales.
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