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Thread: E-2574 Petition: Call Upon the PM to withdraw GunBan OIC

  1. #771
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer phillyblt's Avatar
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    Good video...thanks
    Don't miss... I won't...

  2. #772
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    Flatlined big time my guess is only 250k when its done.
    Take someone shooting - Encourage someone to get a Pal/ RPal

  3. #773
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    I saw the grain farmers of ontario have enough money to run an ad on tv right now.

    I hope the CCFR is getting a lot of donations!

  4. #774
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer LEXRated's Avatar
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    I still think there are many many people who don't even know about the gun ban. also, people who ignored it right off the bat hearing assault rifles and saying things like not my problem and turning the channel instantly after that.

    Is there not a way for the CPC to make the RCMP send out a letter to all Licensed owners about this? At least it will catch a few more that may begin to question what's going on and learn about the ban and the petition.

    Radio and TV and Youtube commercials is totally worth it this time... I'd pay for that somehow if organized.

  5. #775
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer CLW .45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEXRated View Post
    I still think there are many many people who don't even know about the gun ban. also, people who ignored it right off the bat hearing assault rifles and saying things like not my problem and turning the channel instantly after that.

    Is there not a way for the CPC to make the RCMP send out a letter to all Licensed owners about this? At least it will catch a few more that may begin to question what's going on and learn about the ban and the petition.

    Radio and TV and Youtube commercials is totally worth it this time... I'd pay for that somehow if organized.
    There is no way for the CPC to make any government agency do anything, nor should there be!
    - Gun Control is about making it unlawful for you to use, carry, or possess a firearm.
    - All restrictions/prohibitions must be repealed.
    - Middle ground? What middle ground?

  6. #776
    Newbie Isl-master's Avatar
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    ok we are all pissed off and this effects us the most being legal gun owners but read this and I feel the point we need to be telling all non gun owners this is about the government breaking your charter of rights

    https://firearmrights.ca/en/an-open-...nt-re-gun-ban/

  7. #777
    CGN frequent flyer lupothebutcher's Avatar
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    I just received this reply to an appeal in my local facebook group to sign the three petitions; from what I could see, and from what others are saying, IOCs were last used to confiscate and seize Canadians property was in 1941 to seize the property of Japanese-Canadians. This guy is speaking of 33 times....Can anyone add some clarity or good replies?

    "I do not think these petitions have merit. This Order in Council is hardly egregious. Since 1990 federal governments of various political stripes have prohibited Canadians from owning or doing certain things by Order in Council a total of 33 times. Maybe they were right to do so, maybe wrong, but hardly extraordinary. Now, the federal government is not making brand new law by Order in Council. We already have a Criminal Code. We already have prohibited weapons under the Criminal Code. They are just now adding more to the list. This is exactly the minor change in implementing laws that an Order in Council is meant to quickly and easily address. As for this being undemocratic, well a May 1st Angus Reid poll reported that 65% of Canadians strongly favor a complete ban on civilian use and possession of assault weapons. That is 5 times as many Canadians that strongly oppose a complete ban. If it were put to a popular vote, these weapons would already be long gone."

    The following is the response that I came up with...
    Hi Alex,
    Firstly I would say that you are correct, e-petitions are largely worthless; as an example, petition E-1608 (bill C-71) was presented 2018. At the time it was the second most signed petition in Canadian history at over 86,000 signatures; the liberal government response amounted to “we’re liberals, we know what’s best, we’ll tell you what you want, we’ll do what we want”. This is exactly what was expected by this government. E-2341 (Parliamentary Process, Firearms) was presented on May 6, 2020, it was the most signed petition in Canadian history at 175310 signatures; we expect the exact same response as E-1608. Currently E-2574 (Parliamentary Process) is the most signed petition in Canadian history at over 209,000 signatures in only about 2 weeks. We sign these petitions because there is little else that we can do other than launch lawsuits (which are in the works).
    Secondly, OICs were meant for small changes and normally used for things like Cabinet appointments of minor tweaks to existing law; what the liberals are doing is indeed writing new law. Their stated intention is to classify these firearms under paragraph 12(9), 12(9) is a whole new and unwritten paragraph and hence a new law. Are they allowed to do this? Yes. But there is a good-sized swath of Canadian citizens who believe that this is an over-reach, unfair, undemocratic, and underhanded. The liberals have stated outright that the reason that they are going this route is because they could not get the support to pass it if they went the proper and democratic route. That should speak volumes.
    As far as I can find the last time an IOC was used to confiscate Canadian’s property was in 1942 when it was used to confiscate Japanese-Canadian’s property. This is a confiscation, even though the liberals are calling it a “buy back” the people who own this property are quick to point out that it’s not a “buy back” because the government never owned it in the first place, their property is not for sale, and they are being told that if they don’t hand over their property (with or without payment) that they will be thrown in jail. Not very democratic is it?
    Finally, let’s talk about the polls; the Angus Reid poll that you refer to was taken from a sample group of 1500 Canadians who are all paid participants and who were sampled from predominately anti-gun urban ridings located in Toronto and Montreal. This represents some 0.0039% percent of the population. Late in their last mandate, Bill Blair claimed to have held meetings with “stakeholders” across Canada to discuss firearm regulation, this included “town-hall” meetings titled “Reducing Violent Crime: A Dialogue on Handguns and Assault-Style Firearms” to which only liberal approved attendees were permitted entry and an on-line survey, the results of this engagement were shown to overwhelmingly reject the idea of more bans and restrictions on firearm ownership and recommendations to focus on criminals and smuggled firearms. I invite you to check out the results for yourself; they are almost the exact opposite of what you have been told. You may notice that in spite of these much heralded engagements, and in spite of spending untold millions of taxpayer dollars on these engagements, the liberals NEVER mention them or their results anymore….If you like, I could also provide links to literally dozens of impromptu on-line type polls from various news outlets (Global, CTV, cbc, etc) which ALL, every single one, show that Canadians are against further gun control. The usual break-down being +/- 80% against further gun control and +/- 20% for further gun control.
    The legal firearm owner in Canada must be very careful to follow the letter of the law in regards to the firearms act, he must, above all, be very careful NOT to try to interject REASON or COMMON SENSE into the process

  8. #778
    Uber Super GunNutz josquin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isl-master View Post
    ok we are all pissed off and this effects us the most being legal gun owners but read this and I feel the point we need to be telling all non gun owners this is about the government breaking your charter of rights

    https://firearmrights.ca/en/an-open-...nt-re-gun-ban/
    Excellent! Hope he sent this to Turdo & Blair-the-ex-cop.

    Here's the text so people don't even have to open the link:


    An Open Letter from Law Enforcement re: Gun Ban

    Tracey Wilson


    Law enforcement colleagues,

    Much has been said in recent weeks by politicians on both sides of the gun debate, by members of the public and by media pundits. Little has been said publicly by those of us who are professionally engaged and trained in the business of public safety. That business falls squarely at our feet.
    Recently the government decided that they are above our parliamentary system and used an order-in-council to push through legislation rather than using parliamentary debate. The reason for this is simple, they wouldn’t have got the legislation passed without trampling over democracy in their bid to force an ideological, divisive, partisan agenda. The Liberals have clearly decided to follow the path of US politics and use division as a political tool rather than attempting to unite our country and work towards consensus and actual public safety. The confiscation program that is being put in place will be without a doubt a huge erosion of Charter rights and a terrible precedent for Canadian democracy. If this continues it sets the precedent that any party in power can enact whatever legislation they want without going through parliament.

    I am a police member in a Western province in a major municipality that has its fair share of firearms related incidents. I work in a speciality team that has a number of areas of focus, one of which is dealing with gang crime which essentially means two things, drugs and guns. I own an AR15, a Glock and a pump action shotgun (along with a number of other rifles, shotguns and handguns). I choose to own these because it allows me to train to keep myself safe, the public safe and my colleagues safe. I also hunt. Training is hard to come by at work and with ongoing budget cuts it is likely to get worse, starting to take these firearms away from police officers that we use to train will make police officers and the public less safe. Privately owning firearms similar or the same as those used professionally is very common for police. It’s no different than training in the gym on your days off.

    This is an open letter about being on the right side of history and doing the right things for the right reasons. That goes for both us and the government. You and I are accountable for every decision we make, every word that comes out of our mouths, every unholstering of a use of force option. We as Canadians deserve the same level of accountability from our government. If we can’t explain our actions when taking property from someone or taking away their liberty, there’s a problem. The same should be true of the government. The time for the government to stop lying and avoiding answering questions has come.

    It is important to always keep in mind that governments, politicians and partisan ideologies come and go. We serve the people of Canada. We are not a tool of the minority government waiting to do its bidding, ready to trample over the Charter rights of the citizens of Canada and seize legally obtained property in the hands of innocent men and women.

    History is replete with instances of good men and women doing awful things at the behest of their governments or their organization, whether it be a law enforcement agency or a military unit.

    If the official opposition or the Canadian courts don’t undo this decision, police members in Canada as well as other parts of the legal system will be involved in breaching the Section 8 Charter rights of law abiding Canadian citizens when we are involved in the unlawful seizures of privately owned property. As we are all aware, it is not enough for a seizure to be authorized by law, the law must also be reasonable. As this change has been made through order-in-council by a minority government without parliamentary debate and approval I have deep concerns about it being found to be reasonable. Until the Canadian court system rules that this law is reasonable, we are putting ourselves once again in a position of being on the wrong side of history. It is entirely possible that in the coming years we will be involved in criminalizing innocent individuals, entering their homes and removing their property.

    All of these actions will be carried out because a small group of people in a minority government decided that they were above our parliament and our courts.

    It is the role of parliament and the courts to figure this mess out, until then I believe that we as law enforcement professionals and Canadians should give a lot of thought as to whether we want to be agents of the government or protectors of our communities.

    I encourage all of you reading this who agree that the government should stop this action and focus on criminals to write a letter expressing your thoughts and send it anonymously to the CCFR. They will provide you with details of how this can be done. We need to make our voices heard. We are the professionals in public safety, we are the ones who run towards the criminals with the guns, we are the ones who must speak the truth.

    Sincerely, a concerned colleague and Canadian citizen.
    My doctor asked if anyone in my family was suffering from mental illness.
    "No", I said, "We all seem to enjoy it."

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  9. #779
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    I keep hearing from guys at work, or seeing posts online about "oh they added gun x to the list" or "250 new models added to prohib list". When I search Google, the same lists from may 1 pop up... Where are people getting this info, or are they out to lunch?
    HBAR or GTFO

  10. #780
    CGN frequent flyer lupothebutcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakonut View Post
    I keep hearing from guys at work, or seeing posts online about "oh they added gun x to the list" or "250 new models added to prohib list". When I search Google, the same lists from may 1 pop up... Where are people getting this info, or are they out to lunch?
    The rcmp is indeed updating and adding firearms to the FRT (firearms reference table), the important thing to remember is that the FRT is basically a spreadsheet, just a file or a table. A tool that the rcmp uses to keep track of THEIR firearms classifications; IT IS NOT A LAW.
    The legal firearm owner in Canada must be very careful to follow the letter of the law in regards to the firearms act, he must, above all, be very careful NOT to try to interject REASON or COMMON SENSE into the process

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