1-4x Black Rifle scope musings/frustrations

Clobbersauras

Clobbersauras

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I know this is more an optics thread but I'm posting it here because this is where I'll get the answers, so mods have mercy:redface:.

I'm sold on 1x-4x adjustable scopes. Reading the various threads regarding the S&B short dot and reading reviews on other sites have sold me on the practicality of this type system. But I have a few musings/questions to share.

1) Why the heck can't anyone make a reasonably priced alternative to the S&B? Is it really that hard to do right?
2) Why do they have to be so big? The S&B is a fairly large scope for an M4 and the alternatives like the Horus, Falcon, IOR are quite large as well (and not really tested in combat). Even the Elcan SPECTREDR is quite large.
3) I really like BDC reticles but they generally are only made for specific barrel lengths, I know the SpectreDR is made for 16" not sure about the S&B. If you want to run a shorter barrel you are generally out of luck I guess, unless you want to spend a bunch of bucks finding our what ranges the hash marks send your rounds.


I guess I'm looking for options. I'm searching for an alternative to the S&B in the $1000 - $1500 range but I want it to A)have a BDC reticle, B)be as robust as the S&B, C)be useful for barrel lengths shorter than 16 inches. I also want this to be a one unit system, no magnifiers, or Doctor optics mounted.

I keep waiting for the perfect option to come out but so far, no luck:mad:
 
Trijicon accupoint?

P1018859200.JPG


No bdc but not terribly expensive.

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=103
 
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Worth waiting for if the Accupoint has a chevron BDC like the ACOG. I'm holding off buying a TA31F until I see what the new accupoint looks like.

Of course getting the proper SPR mount for it might be a pain.
 
I'm a little confused. You don't like BDC but you want a BDC?

I picked up an older IOR 1-4x with the original CQB reticle that has mils instead of the new "improved CQB 5.56" reticle for the exact reason that you prescribed. I can determine my elevations myself instead of aiming off in between markings because I'm using a different barrel length or ammo that the reticle was designed for. However, in reality the difference that you'd have to aim off may be relatively minor, or even not neccessary depending on your application. You will have to spend a couple of bucks on ammo to determine your elevations, but this would be neccessary with any optic, at least to confirm.

It is big though, believe the IOR is the largest 1-4x scope out there, but it's also built like a tank so I'm not worried about it being subjected to a little abuse.
 
Leg said:
I'm a little confused. You don't like BDC but you want a BDC?
Click to expand...

No - I want BDC. The IOR is just so freakin huge. The Burris XTR is almost perfect for what I would want, but I'm not sure it's as robust as what I'm looking for. Does anyone have experience with Burris?

The Millet DMS is not quite what I want (no BDC) but but it's very inexpensive. Bushnell just bought Millet so maybe they will steal the design and hopefully fold it into their 3200, or 4200 series which would hopefully bring up the quality. Regardless of what people think of Bushnell, their 3200 and 4200 are great quality for the price, with one of the best warranties out there.
 
Nightforce Zero Stop 1-4 scope would work for you.

FWIW the BDCs are at best guides. I think you are over worrying the problem wrt shorter barrels. Even when the rifle, scope, and ammo are all matched by the manufacturer there are lot to lot differences in ammo, and barrels. You will always end up plotting corrections, so it really does not make that big a difference. Also the differences in trajectory are really quite small out to 300m, so most of your shooting will be unaffected.
 
Take it from a guy who has tried A LOT of sights...Save your pennies and get the S&B....Sell something if you must but don't compromise on a lesser optic. I agree that it's big, a bit heavy and it costs a lot but I went through this debate with myself for months and I weighed all the 1-4x optics against eachother trying to find somthing less pricey that still did the same thing as the S&B but in the end I just had to see what was so great about it. I regret nothing.
 
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BKP99 said:
Worth waiting for if the Accupoint has a chevron BDC like the ACOG. I'm holding off buying a TA31F until I see what the new accupoint looks like.

Of course getting the proper SPR mount for it might be a pain.
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The TA31F isn't importable into Canada for civilian users (was told by Wolverine supplies) how were you going to get one? ;)
 
redleg said:
Nightforce Zero Stop 1-4 scope would work for you.

FWIW the BDCs are at best guides. I think you are over worrying the problem wrt shorter barrels. Even when the rifle, scope, and ammo are all matched by the manufacturer there are lot to lot differences in ammo, and barrels. You will always end up plotting corrections, so it really does not make that big a difference. Also the differences in trajectory are really quite small out to 300m, so most of your shooting will be unaffected.
Click to expand...

As always, you make some very good points.
 
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