1 in 14 twist .22-250 vs. the Hornady 55gr. superperformance

[WereWeasel]

I own a Mossberg laminate 4x4 in .22-250, 24" and 1 in 14 barrel. My buddy owns a Browning x-bolt in .22-250 with a 24" and 1 in 14 twist. And finally a co-worker of mine owns a I believe its a Thompson with a 1 in 14 twist, unknown length. We'll call mine "A", my buddy's "B", and the co-workers "C"

Basic data of the round is: 50gr (not 55gr sorry), .224 ballistic tip, 4000fps (advertised)

Gun A: shoots an average 1" groups at 100yards with this round and has only ever shot Hornady 55gr Superperforms (shot approx. 100 rounds through it)
Gun B: broke in with 53gr hand loads and now will tumble rounds over 35 grs so of course did not stabilize the Hornadys
Gun C: guy says bullets are all over the page but claims 45gr hp value packs are "bang on"

So how is it an economy rifle is stabilizing the round and the others not? But moreover why wouldn't the other 2 not stabilize if the information available on 1 in 14 twist barrels claim to be able to stabilize up to 62gr.?

Has anyone else on here have this type of situation where several firearm brands with apparent same spec preform so differently? And I don't mean that one is a lousy/better shooter but actual physical characteristics?

 

[twosmokinspades]

Interesting... I have a Browning Abolt with a 22 inch barrel and it shoots 55 g Vmax bullets just fine. I get better accuracy out of the regular sp. bullets thou. I push mine a little slower at 3600 fps.

 

[horseman2]

My 22-250 shot Imperials loaded with Sierra 55 grain HPBT was a 1/2 MOA rifle, and with hand loaded 60 grain Sierra HP was just as good.
That was with a 1 in 14 twist. 63 grain Sierra bullets would keyhole at 50 yards. It eventually started to show signs of being over the hill.
Advertised for a 24 inch 223 barrel (even and SPS was okay). Received the barrel off CGN and gave it nothing more than a cursory glance.
When Dennis received the barrel he advised it was a 26" and had a satin finish.
I have not tried anything but the 60 grain Sierra bullets but it was right in the groove today. Got the 223 barrel as they are 1 in 12 twist.

 

[1ShotKing]

The Superformance 22-250 ammo from Hornady is either 35 grain NTX or 50 grain v-max, there is no 55 grain superformance. I'm pointing this out purely to further emphasize that this is an odd scenario. With a tight fitting patch on a cleaning rod and a measuring tape you can measure the actual twist rate by placing a piece of tape or some other indicator on your cleaning rod and measuring the length sticking out of the rifle initially and after one revolution to get your twist rate. You may find slight differences between them. For example, a Savage 223 I had had an advertised twist rate of 1 in 9 and measured out close to 1 in 8.75, which explains why it shot heavier bullets better than expected. You could have a case of the opposite scenario. Also, is it possible that the other rifles have significant copper fouling in the rifling? This could cause less positive contact between the rifling and bullet surface, leading to instability.

 

[Boomer]

I own a Mossberg laminate 4x4 in .22-250, 24" and 1 in 14 barrel. My buddy owns a Browning x-bolt in .22-250 with a 24" and 1 in 14 twist. And finally a co-worker of mine owns a I believe its a Thompson with a 1 in 14 twist, unknown length. We'll call mine "A", my buddy's "B", and the co-workers "C"

Basic data of the round is: 55gr, .224 ballistic tip, 4000fps (advertised)

Gun A: shoots an average 1" groups at 100yards with this round and has only ever shot Hornady 55gr Superperforms (shot approx. 100 rounds through it)
Gun B: broke in with 53gr hand loads and now will tumble rounds over 35 grs so of course did not stabilize the Hornadys
Gun C: guy says bullets are all over the page but claims 45gr hp value packs are "bang on"

So how is it an economy rifle is stabilizing the round and the others not? But moreover why wouldn't the other 2 not stabilize if the information available on 1 in 14 twist barrels claim to be able to stabilize up to 62gr.?

Has anyone else on here have this type of situation where several firearm brands with apparent same spec preform so differently? And I don't mean that one is a lousy/better shooter but actual physical characteristics?

Folks keep referring to the limits of the spin stabilization in terms of the weight of their bullets, but in truth its bullet length that is critical to stabilization. For example, my CZ 527 .223 with a 1:12 twist shoots itty bitty groups with Remington 55 gr PSPs, but 55 gr Barnes MPGs tumble. Go figure. If you buddy's 35 gr bullets were Hornady 35 gr NTX, they measure .701" long compared to say Remington 55 gr PSP bulk bullets which are only .685" long. Speer 50 gr TNTs are similar at .683". I used to work with a fellow who swore by the cheap 55 gr Remington bulk bullets in his .22-250 for caribou and wolves, but I convinced him to try 53 gr TSXs, sure enough the 53 gr TSXs made oblong holes in the paper and grouped very poorly from his 1:14 rifle. Perhaps the 45 gr TSX would have been a better choice, but even it measures .697". Frankly I doubt if I'd ever own a 1:14 twist rifle, 1:12 is as slow as I think is reasonable with modern bullets, and the velocity of the .22-250 isn't enough to ensure stability, although it certainly shoot well with short bullets.

But to get to your original question, why your Mossberg stabalizes bullets the X Bolt won't I think the answer is in the rate of twist. According to the Mossberg website, your rifle in .22-250 is available in a broad range of twists: 1:9.5, 1:10, 1:12, and 1:14. Although you believe your barrel is 1:14, I think its probably a faster twist.

 

[WereWeasel]

The Superformance 22-250 ammo from Hornady is either 35 grain NTX or 50 grain v-max, there is no 55 grain superformance. I'm pointing this out purely to further emphasize that this is an odd scenario. With a tight fitting patch on a cleaning rod and a measuring tape you can measure the actual twist rate by placing a piece of tape or some other indicator on your cleaning rod and measuring the length sticking out of the rifle initially and after one revolution to get your twist rate. You may find slight differences between them. For example, a Savage 223 I had had an advertised twist rate of 1 in 9 and measured out close to 1 in 8.75, which explains why it shot heavier bullets better than expected. You could have a case of the opposite scenario. Also, is it possible that the other rifles have significant copper fouling in the rifling? This could cause less positive contact between the rifling and bullet surface, leading to instability.

Sorry just checked the box they are 50gr.
As for twist rate it is 1 in 14 I physically checked before I purchased the ammo to make sure it was compatible.

My buddy is on the fence about calling Browning about the gun. I was there when it started to keyhole the 53gr. it was instant went from sub moa to off the page in 6 shots, he cleaned it no change; a week later and several load builds he switched to 35gr.. It now cloverleafs at 100 and blowing up crows at 300.