100 or 150 gr 777 for mulies

mudbug

mudbug

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I have a TC Encore and have found 100 gr of 777 and 200gr tc shockwave bullets give me cloverleaf groups, however when I use 150 I maybe get 3-4" groups @100yrds. Right mow I have it sighted in at 4" high at 100yrds which gives me a dead on shot at 150 yrds and 6" low at 200 with the 100gr load.
Now my question would be does this thing have enough poop at 200yrds to tip over a big mulie? The last thing I want to do is wound one and have to chase it around the hills for a day. I have never chronied this load. Is this beyond the ethical yardage for this load? If I have a rested shot I feel quite confident I can make a good shot but is there enough energy left after a 200yrd distance to make a good kill shot or even a pass through? Or would you give up the accuracy for more power?
This being said, I plan on getting closer but if a 200" buck gives me an opportunity at 200yrds would I'm probobly gonna take the shot...would YOU take the shot?
Please chime in as I haven't shot anything with my muzzleloader yet even though I've had it for 6 years. My son shot a whitetail at about 125yrds and it dropped in it's tracks with this gun. I just never really had a opportunity at a huge deer while out muzzleloading so I've never pulled the trigger at an animal with this gun yet.
 
I hope you realize that Hodgdon's maximum load for 777 is 100 grains volume equivalent.
Please take the time to go here http://www.hodgdon.com/ml-warning.html, check the box and review the max loads.

In my opinion you would be better served to practice more with the 100 gr. volume equivalent loads to ensure you can plant the shockwave in the right place.

And yes, I would take the shot at 200 IF I was shooting prone or off a solid support and had practiced lots of shooting at that distance and was 100% confident I could plant the shockwave in the right spot. YMMV

Good luck with your hunt.
 
My traditions by far prefers 100gr with most any sabot, black or pyrodex, sure i can use 150, but it patterns more like a shotgun loaded with three 45 caliber round balls. As far as the 200yrd shot, know your ballistics, put it in the boiler room, make jerkey and sausage.
 
I'm knocking em down with 90 gr of T7. Shoot whatever your rifle will reliably group with. The big trick is actually knowing what the bullet arc is doing. I seldom venture a shot past 150 yards without a laser range finder.
 
Thanks for the info Pioneer. It definetly got me looking into it.

Off the hodgden site

MAXIMUM LOAD WARNING45 and 50 CALIBER RIFLE:
45 Caliber Pellets come in one size: 50 grain
50 Caliber Pellets come in two (2) sizes:
50 grain volume equivalent which equals 50 grains of loose powder by volume.
30 grain volume equivalent which equals 30 grains of loose powder by volume.
The maximum load per shot should never exceed total Pellets containing more than 100 grains volume equivalent. That means, no more than:
45 Caliber 1) Two (2) 50 grain Pellets
2) Three (3) 44/45 caliber 30 grain
50 Caliber 1) Three (3) 30 grain Pellets, or
2) Two (2) 50 grain Pellets, or
3) One (1) 50 grain Pellet and one (1) 30 grain Pellet

54 CALIBER RIFLE:
54 Caliber Pyrodex Pellets come in one size only:
60 grain volume equivalent which equals 60 grains of loose powder by volume.
The maximum load per shot should never exceed 120 grains (2) Pellets.
44/45 CALIBER PISTOL:
The maximum load per each revolver chamber should never exceed one (1) revolver Pellet. Exceeding maximum load may cause damage to the firearm and cause personal injury or death to the shooter or bystanders.
* At no time should the shooter exceed the firearm manufacturers recommended maximum load. If there is a question concerning the firearm maximum load, please contact the firearm manufacturer for guidance.


However my encore is a Magnum (whatever that means) and it says I can use a 150gr charge of pyrodex or black powder equivelant. I would presume 777 is an equivelant. Can someone clear that up for me. It also states that 777 is 15% more powerful than pyrodex but apparently only in the loose powder form and that doesn't apply to the pellets.
If I'm wrong please clear this up for me.
 
I thought I would pass on a few more thoughts re your query.

First, I didn't know you were planning to use pellets. If so, it appears you could get the ballistic performance you are seeking by using two of the so called Magnum 777 pellets i.e. 2148 fps from a 26” barrel with a 200 gr. Shockwave. That is from Hodgdon's charts.

However, whether that load will give you the accuracy you will need is a big question. Only you shooting that load in your gun will determine that. I would bet though, that it won't. I don't use pellets, but from what I've read on various forums, loose powder seems to shoot more accurately than pellets, and generally lighter loads shoot more accurately than heavy loads.

From any info I have seen from T/C they only say to use black powder or Pyrodex, then go on to say if you want to use any other black powder substitute refer to the substitute manufacturer's data. Fair enough, they are covering their butt as there are so many substitutes around now and probably more to come.

Lyman's 2nd edition of their Black Powder Handbook has a lot of pressure data that has some interesting numbers that might be cause for some serious thought. For example, many of the loads using three 50 gr. Pyrodex pellets in a 50 cal. Rifle show pressures of nearly 30,000 psi and loads with 120 gr. of loose Pyrodex nearly as high. And all this pressure being held back by a 209 shotgun primer facing into a hole into the chamber.

I have never seen pressure data for 777. But you can bet Hodgdon has. So if they are limiting their 777 loads to what they show in their charts I would believe there is a reason. Now some of it probably is because they have to be cautious because they don't know the firearms that are going to be used.

But still, would I use three 777 pellets when Hodgdon recommends only two. NOPE.

Now you could call T/C and Hodgdon and ask them if you can safely use 150 gr. loads of 777 pellets with the 200 gr. Shockwave in your particular gun but I am pretty sure what their answer will be.

Lots of big game has been taken with some surprisingly light loads. The real key is the right bullet in the right place at the right range.

A lot of good info is available on various muzzleloader forums that may more directly answer your question.

Just be careful and have fun.
 
Thanks again for the info. I guess I should have stated that; Yes I am using 777 pellets. I am using 2 - 50gr pellets with the 200gr shockwave. Thay are just to easy and I'm kinda lazy. I would eventually like to try to taylor a load of loose powder to see if there is any increase in accuracy. Right now I am very pleased with the accuracy, just concerned with the knockdown power left after a 200 yrd shot. I guess I'll just have to cross that bridge if I get the chance.
Only 9 more days till archery whitetail, 24 more days till archery moose, 39 days till muzzleloading mule deer, etc:D
 
i use 3 Magnum 777 pellets and a Barnes .451" 250 GR SPIT-FIRE TMZ (100% copper construction) and i shoot under 1" at 100 yards


Hodgdon specifically warns against loading more than 2 pellets per shot. Failure to do so may cause injury or death to the user and/or bystanders.”
 
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