12/3 Lanchester Mk1 smg & 12/3 PPSh-41 smg.---is there any interest?

D

drm3m

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
13   0   0
Location
Montreal Quebec
I am trying to get a sense in the 12/3 collector community what sort of interest there might be before I go any further with the marketing of these 12/3 guns.

The British Lanchester smg is dated 1942 and comes with the accessories shown.





The Russian PPSh-41 is dated 1943 and comes with the accessories as shown.

 
God, I'd love that Lanchester.

Ahem.

Take a look at a thread elsewhere. Upon application to transfer 12(3) etc firearms, they are being collected for inspection. People have been waiting 2-3 years to get them back with no sign of movement. A very frustrating situation.
 
As cantom has pointed out, 12-3 transfers have been problematic.
I've seen the insides of a 12-3 PPSh, and suspect that there would be problems, if submitted for inspection. The one that I examined had the disconnector unit welded in place, cut loose from the selector. Clip the tip of the disconnector off, and away it would go.

Both are fine examples.
 
PMs sent to cantom and EMEDiva.

I am aware of the delays with 12/3 transfers.

I sold two of my 12/3s on January 13 2015----CFC transfers were called in and I was paid in full for both guns.
These two guns are currently undergoing inspection. (An MP40 & MP44 )
There is no doubt that patience is required.

The two 12/3s shown above are the two remaining 12/3s that I own and I have to decide if I will keep one of them to maintain my 12/3 PAL status.


 
I'm interested in the Lanchester. Please shoot me a PM if you come up with a price.

If any 12.3 has any lab report, as obtained from some of the provinces such as Alberta, it probably won't be required to be re-submitted for inspection. I've got a buddy that got a 12.3 1928 registered as fast as any simple restricted gun.

So who knows for sure.
 
If it has already been inspected I have had transfer take about 3 weeks. If it hasn't been inspected I have been waiting 2 years and counting on a transfer right now
 
koldt--- please send me your email address.

My Lanchester and MP40 went through the Ontario Forensic Lab in December 1992.
As I understand it---the problem is that the specific modifications were not itemized.





This whole effort is to make sure that 12/3 conversions are not easily reversible to full auto with just the addition of a few parts.

I can understand that objective as the regs may have been pretty 'loosey goosey' back in 1992.
 
Thanks for your comment cantom.

When a collector gets to the point where it makes sense to start selling some pieces it is a major crossroads.

I guess that I am at that point with my 12/3 stuff after many years.

I am sure that this applies to others as well----your original purchase price----and then over the years you add the accessories---sling---extra magazines---magazine pouches ---- bayonet—take down tools etc.---depending on the gun.

When it comes time to sell---do these extra accessories get factored into the value equation?

At one point I bought a lot of stuff on eBay with U.S. dollars when the Canadian dollar was weak.

If you compare asking prices on a private sale with the prices quoted by a dealer---add the taxes---and the dealer or auctioneer does not usually include the accessories---they are sold separately.

An example with this PPSh-41.---the extras as shown below.



The gun with the drum magazine.

This gun also has three PPSh-41 box magazines.





A PPSh sling purchased from Ostfront.

A Russian NCO belt purchased on eBay.

 
drm3m said:
PMs sent to cantom and EMEDiva.

I am aware of the delays with 12/3 transfers.

I sold two of my 12/3s on January 13 2015----CFC transfers were called in and I was paid in full for both guns.
These two guns are currently undergoing inspection. (An MP40 & MP44 )
There is no doubt that patience is required.

The two 12/3s shown above are the two remaining 12/3s that I own and I have to decide if I will keep one of them to maintain my 12/3 PAL status.


Click to expand...
Oh my they are beautiful!
giphy.gif
 
JasonGTA,

What a friendly looking doggie!

We only had one dog that was a gun guy----Austin was into P.38s.



I understand that you like MG34s. Two Gustloff assembled guns MG34 dated 1939---MG42 dated 1943.



A well marked MG42 sling dated 1943 that came from Reidar (Bergflak) in Norway.
"gyb" Bauer, Wilhelm, Friedr., G.m.b.H., Lederwarenfabrik, Offenbach a.M.-Bieber WaA 668



Possible WaA 897 marking on the shackle.



Gustloff’s code ‘936’ on MG34s in 1939.



Gustloff’s code ‘dfb’ on MG42s in 1943.

 
Last edited:
I wonder how the gun was allowed to have a wood stock..
If I remember correctly..One of the reason the MK1 Sten gun was rejected was because it had a wood stock and obviously wood was very valuable at that point in time.
 
Power Pill,

A little background on the British Lanchester submachine gun.

When Britain went to war in 1939, there were no sub-machineguns of any sort in her Order of Battle. In fact, the armories were bare. It was not until 1940 that the British Purchasing Commission in New York was instructed to buy all the Thompson sub-machineguns that it could lay its hands on. In all, orders were placed for 300,000 Thompson sub-machineguns and a staggering 249 million rounds of .45 cal. ammunition. (100,000 never ended up in Britain but rather at the bottom at the Atlantic Ocean,…casualties of the German U-Boats etc.)

Once the gold reserves were gone it was a case of necessity that Britain, in desperation, just had to manufacture her own sub-machinegun.
After evaluation and debate the decision to manufacture a gun that resembled the German MP28 (11) was made, …leading to the development of the British Lanchester MK.1 sub-machinegun.
Cyclic Rate of Fire: 600 RPM
Type of Fire: selective: full automatic and semi-automatic.
Magazine Capacity: 50 rounds.
Bayonet: The gun is fitted with a bayonet lug to accommodate the Pattern 1907 bayonet.

The first contract was June 13, 1941. (50,000 guns) at 14 Pounds Sterling each.
Last contract October 9, 1943.

The Four Lanchester Assemblers:
Lanchester assembly contracts were actually awarded to three firms:

Sterling (two plants) Total production until October 1943 – 74,579.
Sterling assembly of the Lanchester was split between the Sterling Engineering Co Ltd in Dagenham (code marked S109) and the Sterling Armaments Company in North Hampton (code M619)
W W Greener – production 16,990
Boss & Co. – production 3,990
Production over 28 months averaged 3,410 per month.

Who got the Lanchesters?
50,000 Lanchesters: (nearly all for the Royal Navy.) First contract June 13, 1941.
The first order was supposed to be split 50-50 between the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, which did not happen.

By this time the British Army had supplies of the Thompson, and they made it quite clear that the Thompson was what they wanted, so the Army kept the Thompson.

The Royal Air Force would immediately receive the 2,000 newly acquired Smith & Wesson 9mm carbines (smgs), for the defence of aerodromes and airfields now springing up around the country. This gun apparently was a total fiasco.
(Ironically the RAF had originally requested a copy of the German MP38.)

The actual year of manufacture of any particular Lanchester can be found stamped in small almost indistinguishable numbers next to the “crossed flags” military proof mark on top of the rearmost magazine housing flange that encompasses the casting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom