120 gr. Barnes TSX for whitetail?

[LawrenceN]

I've been hunting deer for a fair number of years and I normally use 150-165 gr. bullets. As every shooter knows, bullet placement is everything, but I always liked the knock-down values of the heavier bullets but not so heavy as to damage good meat. I take a certain amount of pride in the fact that most every deer I've shot has been a one-shot kill, usually a heart/lung shot, and once a perfect broadside neck shot through the trees that severed the spinal column. That deer just collapsed like a deflated balloon. Bullet technology has improved so much over my life time that I've started to take a serious look at lighter bullets. Two years ago, I nailed a nice little 6 point with an SKS using 123 gr. soft points so that opened my eyes a bit. Now I've acquired a beautiful Swedish mauser sporter in the classic 6.5 X 55 and I'm in the process of working up hunting loads for it. I managed to find the last pound of H4350 from a local supplier, and when I was there, they had the Barnes 120 gr. TSX on sale, so I bought a box. I've read mixed reviews on the bullet and it's performance, but I have questions for those of you who have actually used them.
First and foremost, how did you find the performance (ie: knock-down power, and expansion)? Secondly, how did you find them for accuracy as in what kind of groups did you produce at the 100 yd. range? I have a bunch of different loads that I'm taking to the range this weekend for trials. Currently, I have 130 gr. and 140 gr. Sierra Game Kings loaded up for testing. I plan to load up some of the Barnes for the next shoot. Any knowledgeable input would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[jsquig]

I've found they work well and are just over MOA in my rifle without significant load development. I've found on game performance to be exactly as advertised on the 4 deer I've shot with them (2 with the .257 weatherby and 2 with the .375 h&h). One of the deer hit with the .257 had a ton of bloodshot and wasted meat on the entry side, but I think that was more a product of the velocity than the actual bullet. I've heard tell of them not working/failing to expand, but I suspect this is caused by people not following the Barnes guidelines. Barnes recommends 2000 fps for reliable expansion (I believe that is at the point of impact not MV).

 

[LawrenceN]

Thanks jsquig. From the information I'd picked up on the Barnes website, I'd gathered that their bullets are designed for optimum performance at the higher end of the velocity chart. I don't like reloading at max pressures, but for this bullet I'll keep the loads just under max by a 1 or 1-1/2 gr. of the H4350. I'm just trying to keep away from loads that are real barrel burners.

 

[BRvalley]

I shoot a 260 rem, don't handload yet, I shoot factory barnes vortx 120 gr ttsx...they average at 2910 fps...I shoot them slightly at 1" consistently, I've shot 1/2" but not consistently, I hope I can shoot that consistently when I hand load though

so far I've killed 3 deer from 60 to 340 yards, and a red stag at 240 yards...I only recovered one bullet that deflected up into the spine, was the 60 yard shot so obviously it expanded quite nicely

according to the the software I used, at 340 yards the velocity should be around 2200fps and ft lbs around 1300...the bullet passed through rib cage and offside shoulder, judging by the internals, I would say that there was a decent amount of expansion

I've shot coyotes at 500 yards and it just pencils through, doubt there is enough energy at that distance to expand a barnes....but when I start hand loading soon I'm interested to see what performance other bullets could get me around the 500 yard mark

 

[Eagleye]

Just had a friend return from an Elk hunt. He had two 165 TSX bullets fail to expand from his 300 Weatherby at impact velocities well above 2200.

Finally got one to expand and the Elk was recovered, but first two pencilled through. TTSX is supposed to expand more reliably, though.

I'm going to give the 168 TTSX a try soon. I start it at 3200 from my 308 Norma Mag. Report back later. Dave.

 

[track]

I used the 100 grain TSX in my 257 Wby. on whitetail, never again will I use a Barnes bullet. The buck I shot ran 500 yards before dropping dead. After skinning and gutting there were only pencil size holes in the hide and lungs. The blood trail that I followed were tiny little specks of blood...........good thing there was snow on the ground. I've always used Nosler.......If it ain't broke, it don't need fix'in.

 

[Throttle_monkey1]

Let me know how those 120 ttsx bullets work for you. I went with the Barnes 127grain LRX and found some 129 grain nosler accubond Long range. Gonna start load development in a week or so.

 

[Dogleg]

I'll wager you find that the Barnes kill slower. They do penetrate better than just about anything else, and if I was selling them for a living I'd be stressing that. The odd time that's important, but usually its trading something you want for something you don't need. My experience with them spans from .257 to .458.

TSXs do work better the faster you drive them but I've still never found a copper bullet that can kill as fast as a suitable lead bullet. It helps if you poke it through both shoulders, or whatever it takes to get more resistance. That's with a lot of impact velocities over 3000, and typical muzzle velocities in the 3500 fps range. The most extreme speed I've tried so far is a 80 grain TTSX cranked up to 3950 fps in a .257 Weatherby and driven through a whitetail's shoulders at 68 yards. Do that with a lead bullet and it would get turned inside out, be cut and wrapped and there would be so much hair flying that you'd think it was snowing out. With the TTSX it ran. Granted it never ran very far, but still. If speed is what it takes, how much is going to take and when is it going to start working?

Close range accuracy is usually easy to get with a TSX, esp if you can seat reasonably close to the lands. That probably isn't in the cards with Swede, but you may do OK with a long jump. There's a bit of a paradox involved with close range accuracy because the correct (but not real polite) answer for "How does it shoot at 100 yards" is "Who cares?". Its next to impossible to make a load shoot so bad that you can't use it for 100 yard hunting, so the purpose of accuracy must for longer ranges. The same longer ranges that have low impact velocities. Lower velocities as in the exact opposite of what you want with a copper bullet.

 

[hoytcanon]

I used the 100 grain TSX in my 257 Wby. on whitetail, never again will I use a Barnes bullet. The buck I shot ran 500 yards before dropping dead. After skinning and gutting there were only pencil size holes in the hide and lungs. The blood trail that I followed were tiny little specks of blood...........good thing there was snow on the ground. I've always used Nosler.......If it ain't broke, it don't need fix'in.

Welcome back... we missed you...




By "we" I mean sunray and I...

 

[LawrenceN]

Thanks to all of you for the input. I'm on the trail of a 20 lb. block of modelling clay (ballistic gel not available) and I'll use it as expansion test bed for my reloads. It'll be a while, but when I'm done I'll post results and pix.

 

[Throttle_monkey1]

I'll wager you find that the Barnes kill slower. They do penetrate better than just about anything else, and if I was selling them for a living I'd be stressing that. The odd time that's important, but usually its trading something you want for something you don't need. My experience with them spans from .257 to .458.

TSXs do work better the faster you drive them but I've still never found a copper bullet that can kill as fast as a suitable lead bullet. It helps if you poke it through both shoulders, or whatever it takes to get more resistance. That's with a lot of impact velocities over 3000, and typical muzzle velocities in the 3500 fps range. The most extreme speed I've tried so far is a 80 grain TTSX cranked up to 3950 fps in a .257 Weatherby and driven through a whitetail's shoulders at 68 yards. Do that with a lead bullet and it would get turned inside out, be cut and wrapped and there would be so much hair flying that you'd think it was snowing out. With the TTSX it ran. Granted it never ran very far, but still. If speed is what it takes, how much is going to take and when is it going to start working?

Close range accuracy is usually easy to get with a TSX, esp if you can seat reasonably close to the lands. That probably isn't in the cards with Swede, but you may do OK with a long jump. There's a bit of a paradox involved with close range accuracy because the correct (but not real polite) answer for "How does it shoot at 100 yards" is "Who cares?". Its next to impossible to make a load shoot so bad that you can't use it for 100 yard hunting, so the purpose of accuracy must for longer ranges. The same longer ranges that have low impact velocities. Lower velocities as in the exact opposite of what you want with a copper bullet.

I agree with pretty much everything you say. Barnes says the minimum expansion velocity for the LRX is 1600 fps while the accubond long range is 1300 fps minimum. I'd like to try them both out in my 6.5x55 to see how they perform at around 1800-2000 fps. If they both perform well at around 1800 fps, that will give me the ability to use them to 500 yards if I run them at 2900fps mv. Granted this is if they group well.