168 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip

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Have any of you tried the 168 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip out to, and past 600 yards? The BC is listed at .490, which seems quite good compared to similar weight target bullets. Perhaps it is a bit optimistic? By way of comparison:

168gr A-Max .475
165 Interbond .447
178gr A-Max .495
168gr SMK .462
175gr SMK .505
168gr Berger VLD Hunting .473
175gr Berger VLD Hunting .498
168gr Berger Match VLD .473

And so on. I know that the match bullets will likely have much better consistancy, so you'd have to sort through the Nosler Ballistic Tips, but I am curious about actual hands on testing and results.

Thanks.
 
They should work fine, but "Brian Litz" mentioned that the boattail on the "BALLISTIC" line is too steep for best performance.

I say shoot em and find out.

Ballistic coefficients tend to be optimistic most of the time. I just go out, shoot, and collect my trajectory data at various ranges with a given bullet/load, and adjust the BC in my ballistics provram until the two trajectories become congruant.

Hope this was helpful.
 
Just curious, why the ballistic tip, when there is sooo many other bullet styles available for long range precision shooting?

I would like to work up one load for hunting and plinking. I have a .308 Win coming my way and I figure I should be able to get an easy 2750 fps out of it with the 168gr BT, which should mean reliable expansion out to 600 yards (not that I planning to shoot anything other than paper at that distance right now). It would also be nice if they would maintain stability out to +800 yards. I am new to the long range stuff so I have done some reading and apparently the 175gr SMK is a great choice, as are the Bergers if your rifle will shoot them well. On the other hand I have read that the 168gr SMK while generally more accurate out to 600 or so, tend to go a bit haywire by 800. This is especially true out of shorter barrels.

So long story short, given time constraints I'd rather be out playing with one load than working up several. Sounds kind of lazy, but it is the best I can do right now.
 
Have any of you tried the 168 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip out to, and past 600 yards? The BC is listed at .490, which seems quite good compared to similar weight target bullets. Perhaps it is a bit optimistic? By way of comparison:

168gr A-Max .475
165 Interbond .447
178gr A-Max .495
168gr SMK .462
175gr SMK .505
168gr Berger VLD Hunting .473
175gr Berger VLD Hunting .498
168gr Berger Match VLD .473

And so on. I know that the match bullets will likely have much better consistancy, so you'd have to sort through the Nosler Ballistic Tips, but I am curious about actual hands on testing and results.

Thanks.

Brian Litz data suggest a G1 BC of 0.444 and a G7 of 0.227. I have found his data to be very accurate so far and have found most advertized BC'c from most of the manufactures to be exagerated.
 
It would also be nice if they would maintain stability out to +800 yards. I am new to the long range stuff so I have done some reading and apparently the 175gr SMK is a great choice, as are the Bergers if your rifle will shoot them well. On the other hand I have read that the 168gr SMK while generally more accurate out to 600 or so, tend to go a bit haywire by 800. This is especially true out of shorter barrels.

I shoot 168 amax's out past 1500m regularly. I am the part that isn't accurate at that distance. They will hold the mechanical accuracy of the rifle as far as they will stay stable.

Don't believe the hype that a 308 isn't accurate past ### yards. They are as accurate as you can steer them through the ever changing air currents.

Heck, one buddy of mine is pretty good with winchester white box 223 rem 45gn varmint loads as far as 800yrds. Gotta lob a few out to see where they want to land but once you do its not rocket science to make them hit steel.
 
I shoot 168 amax's out past 1500m
Interesting. I havent shot the Amaxes but I had the 168 bergers keyholing at 1200 they shot great @ 1000. Muzzel velocities @ 2950fps (30-06). It sounds like the amaxes might transition into subsonic and stay stable. I have read that most 168's have too steep of a boatail for their length and are not that stable @ range which I have experienced with sierras and berger 168's. I gave up on the 168's and went to 185's and havent looked back. Way higher BC's, lower time of flights then the 168's. I had the 185 out to 1400 last weekend and was making reliable strikes on a 14'' diameter swinging plate. At this rangr the rounds were subsonic.
 
I just bought a PILE of the 168 amax's so I am using them up. When the wind permits I am tagging a 20lb propane tank reliably at 1330yrds. Working up a 175 nosler custom comp load and it already has better potential than my 168 load. Then I want to try the 185 Berger OTM's. Heard they are very good at transonic velocities. Too many new goodies to try. :D
 
My 168 grain Bergers didnt experience any stability problems till they got out to 1450-1500ish. My load is around 2850fps, 1-12" twist barrel.

THUNDERSTRUCK:
what twist rate you using?
Isnt it funny how some barrles will shoot them and others just wont!
This is the first time I ever heard of 168 gr. bergers tumbling already at 1000-1100.

What is your MOA adjustment for 1400 yards with the 185's?
I was playing with the idea of going heavier.
 
I was reading an interesting thread on Maryland Shooters. Ed Shell states:

Regarding the 168gr SMK
For "long range", the 168 is not going to provide consistent or reliable results from a .308. Moderate ranges, yes, but true long range, no.

In addition to shooting quite a few of those rascals myself, I've shot with and against them. I've also helped teach long range precision rifle classes at Quantico, which were attended by LE from several states, military and civilian shooters.

Invariably, we will get a student who, while never having actually shot to 1,000 yards with their duty rifle, feels quite strongly that their 168 SMKs (FGMM or BH) are going to be "just fine". Even though the class prep docs specifically warned against trying to use 168 SMKs for this class, there was always that 5% . . .

Invariably, we will have that person begging or buying 175 grain ammo from someone so they can finish the course.

The 168 SMKs really are superb at closer ranges, which can be misleading.

They get so far back and their bullets no longer hit where expected, and the pit crew advises that "someone" is getting sideways hits and that their bullets are sub-sonic. It is easy for the pit crew to recognize sub-sonic projectiles, because they are lacking the characteristic sonic "crack" at accompanies a happy bullet.

At near sea level (typical density altitudes from -1,500' to +1,000) areas such as Quantico, the 168 SMK is almost guaranteed to turn sideways by the 800 yard line. This is especially true of short barreled "police tactical" models, and longer barrels will sometimes do OK to 900, but at 1,000, it is nearly impossible to drive a 168 fast enough from a .308 to keep it from going trans-sonic and destabilizing at that distance.

In the mountains, at 3,900' ASL (typical density altitudes from +3,500' to +7,500) where we shoot the Allegheny Sniper Challenge, the 168 will perform much better, and may not go trans-sonic before 1,100 yards. Even so, it still lacks any performance benefit that would suggest their use. Any close range accuracy advantage is quickly lost, due to it's sensitivity to wind and pronounced drop at extended ranges, even *IF* it does manage to stay nose-on.

While the 175 SMK begins a little slower, and may deliver a 3/4 MOA 100 yard group in lieu of a 3/8 MOA 100 yard group, it enjoys a MUCH better ballistic coefficient and far greater stability. It is not only more resistant to wind drift at all ranges, but by the time we get to 600-700 yards, it surpasses that 168 SMK in all aspects; drop, drift and retained velocity.

While it is relatively easy to compensate additional drop, and no one *really* cares about their exact terminal velocity, drift just flat out kills you, because the wind over that much real estate become VERY difficult to dope with real precision. What may seem to be a tiny fraction of wind change, 1-2 MPH, nearly imperceptible at the firing line, especially when we talk about the difference between an 8 MPH breeze and a 10 MPH breeze, becomes a difference of a center hit and complete miss surprisingly quickly.

Bottom line: Trying to use a 168 SMK from a .308 at *true* long range is a well-documented strategic error and to be avoided.

And regarding the Berger 175gr VLD:
I like the Bergers, and their higher BC allows them to retain their velocities even further out than the Sierra SMK. If your rifle likes them, they are hard to beat.

The problem is that the same secant ogive that provide such a sleek profile shortens the available full-diameter bearing surface also puts the point so far in front of the bearing surface that one cannot usually mag feed them and still get anywhere near the rifling, which potentially creates an accuracy problem.

Whether this condition actually does create a problem will depend on the individual rifle's throat geometry.

Some rifles, with relatively tight throats, will tolerate a long jump and shoot Berger VLDs, and usually everything else, just fine.

A rifle with a larger diameter ball seat area ("leade"), combined with the Berger's relatively short bearing surface and a long jump to the lands may allow in-bore yaw. In-bore yaw slumps the bullet off-center, making best accuracy impossible and, with the center of gravity mis-aligned with the center of form, the bullet suffers nutation until air resistance drags it into line. This nutation kills the BC just when we need it most, when our MV is highest, and adds more drag than a less efficient bullet.

Rifles with the larger throats are often the same rifles that are very finicky about every little variable; seating length affects accuracy, it doesn't like some bullets, change the charge weight by 1/2 grain and groups open up. . . . We drive ourselves nuts trying to find "the" load, while other rifles "mysteriously" and gracefully digest everything they're fed.

Conversely, what distinguishes the tangent ogive bullets like the Sierra MatchKings is that they are very tolerant of throat geometry variations and seating lengths - they tend to shoot consistently in a wide variety of rifles. Why? They have a relatively long bearing surface and tend to follow the bore better, even if the throat is a little sloppy.
 
My 168 grain Bergers didnt experience any stability problems till they got out to 1450-1500ish. My load is around 2850fps, 1-12" twist barrel.

THUNDERSTRUCK:
what twist rate you using?
Isnt it funny how some barrles will shoot them and others just wont!
This is the first time I ever heard of 168 gr. bergers tumbling already at 1000-1100.

What is your MOA adjustment for 1400 yards with the 185's?
I was playing with the idea of going heavier.

11.25 5r rifling. My 185 berger juggernauts 48.25 moa drop @1400yards 4200ASL. I really like them. There just is no comparason in the down range performance. Only down side is a little more recoil.1400 is the furthest I've shot, I'm looking for a spot to try to get out to a mile.
 
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