thanks everyone. I am leaning towards the .22 hornet over the .17hmr but I have been giving some hard thought to saving some more $$$ and getting a Savage .223. I like the fact that there is alot of cheap .223 ammo available and since this would be my first centerfire it would allow me to practice more without getting into reloading right away. My only concern is the noise level but that is another topic. Anyway thanks for all your help