1867 Werndl- Holub carbine. The gun that got away, ALMOST!

Tinman204

Tinman204

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So for about 4 years I've been searching for a werndl to add to my collection.

Smellie on here is my mentor and good friend and has always wanted one to play with and he has been trying to get one for some 50 years or so. So knowing this I've been wanting to get one so he can try it.

I came across this Werndl last summer at a gun show. Found it on a table full of super high end military single shot rifles. The guy who had the table was a real old timer probably in his 80's. It was priced reasonably but to be honest I had never seen am 1867 carbine so I was hesitant to buy it. I thought it was a chopped rifle and thus the price was high. The guy who had it didn't know much about it but said he bought it a long long time ago and never shot it. Was the only one he'd ever come across after a lifetime of collecting.

Also I'll add I was a bit tight on funds that day. So I let it go thinking it was a chopped rifle at a high price. :)

After getting home the gun was stuck on my mind so I did some googling and flipped through my reference library. And there I was in the basement screaming "omg I let the rarest werndl pass through my hands for a cheap price!!"

I vend a lots of gun shows but couldn't find any vendors that knew that fellow. He wasn't there at any other following shows.

Fast forward to the first show of the season and a vendor who I yak with at every show mentioned to me that he thought that old timer passed away and he heard his collection including that werndl was being auctioned off this spring.

Long story short I did tons of digging and I found the werndl was indeed being auctioned.

I got it finally after a year of trying to track it down.

Here's some pictures. It's still a bit dirty and needs some more cleaning but it's more or less all there except the cleaning rod.



The bore is like new on this one, sharp and honestly looks un fired. It's chambered in its original 11.15x36 cartridge. I verified that via chamber cast. Looks easy to make up using 7.62x54r brass and 43 Mauser esq bullets.

Can't wait to make her bark as she hasn't been fired in at lest 50 or so years.

This gun was in my dreams for a year and it's great that with some networking and unwillingness to quit I found it.

Thanks for looking!
 
Last edited:
For clarity - are people fireforming the x54 cases or progressively expanding them up to 11.15? I feel like fireforming with a blank load would be better, but in this action there's a good risk of flashing back around the case.
 
H Wally said:
For clarity - are people fireforming the x54 cases or progressively expanding them up to 11.15? I feel like fireforming with a blank load would be better, but in this action there's a good risk of flashing back around the case.
Click to expand...

If you measure a 54r case you'd basically need to chop it at the shoulder which is about 38mm. Then trim to final length. No need to form it from what I can see.

The 11.15x36 cartridge is more of less straight walled. I may have to neck down the case just slightlyto hold the bullet but that will be determined once I get there.
 
I load and shoot my Werndl carbine.
The recipe given to me by the dealer I bought it from was,
230 gr .45 ACP-RN lead bullets (.452")
8 gr Unique. Large rifle primer. (Donnelly Handbook of Ctg Conversion calls for 12gr IMR4227 for 275gr lead bullet)
Case length 1.4" I use a pipe cutter to get close and then trim to length. Anneal and expand to .450"
OAL 1.8"
 
Pete04 said:
I load and shoot my Werndl carbine.
The recipe given to me by the dealer I bought it from was,
230 gr .45 ACP-RN lead bullets (.452")
8 gr Unique. Large rifle primer. (Donnelly Handbook of Ctg Conversion calls for 12gr IMR4227 for 275gr lead bullet)
Case length 1.4" I use a pipe cutter to get close and then trim to length. Anneal and expand to .450"
OAL 1.8"
Click to expand...

I haven't slugged my bore yet, man would it be nice to load a 45 acp slug. Going to keep my fingers crossed.
 
Can't speak to your guns' use of my recipe, but, by your pics, our guns look much the same. I also have 3 full length Werndl rifles that I load and shoot.

For my old eyes and iron sights, I find my carbine can hit within a small pie plate at 100m. I've used 7.8gr to 8.2 gr of Unique. No pressure signs.
I see it as a mild .45 colt.
 
I was and still am looking for a 73/77 carbine but after running across the '67 at a gun show, a few years ago, in Markham On. and inspecting the bore and (somewhat) knowing the dealer, I jumped on my gun. It was the first and only example that I have seen here.
So, yes, there aren't many to be found but there are some!!
We are both lucky, in our finds, for sure.
 
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